Viken

Well, I've never been to FL. Does that mean, yes you cruise around in a straight line, yes you have butter smooth roads, or both?

Yes, yours truly. That was when I was young, stupid and did not listen to anyone.

Does he live in FL?

newport996

Overkill only if you want a decent ride quality and adjustability. If you just wanna drop it...Put on springs. And again, unless you add shocks, it'll "bounce"...Even the ROW M030 sport supension is harsh, that is with new springs and shocks.

Viken

Yes, it is as much overkill as a Porsche is. We could all be driving Honda's and Nissan's for less than half the price of a Porsche instead. No one needs a P-car, right?

earlyapex

Elton,

Congratulations on the 40th! It's a great car that deserves a well thought out suspension. It's standard M030 suspension leaves it a little to high in my opinion. It handles well but the front end feels floaty at high speeds. I take mine to the track so I chose the Bilstein PSS9 kit and lowered the car about one inch from stock. I'll post some pictures when I get home late tonight and take some measurements. The car handles great! I just finished two track days at Laguna Seca where the car shined. The Bilstein PSS9's also ride better than the stock kit over sharp bumps and undulations. I can't speak for the X-74 kit.

deputydog95

You guys need lighten up.
Yes, the roads in FL are straight and smooth. We have almost no elevation changes. At least where I live anyway. It's a very boring place to drive. You've not nice twisties in CA.

Why so nasty about it? You work for bilstein or something?

Isn't it possible that there are people out there who used a quality set of springs and are happy with it? I asked probably about ten people that have done it to their 996's with good results and no complaints.

I've had experience doing it both ways (springs and coil overs). I liked them both. I didn't have any problems with just doing springs. I will admit I've never done it on a p-car. Maybe I'll find out the hard way because I'm "young and stupid".

If you can't respond without being a ballbuster, just don't say anything. This is supposed to be a friendly place to exchange info.

Viken

Who needs to lighten up? Us or you? Seems to me that you're the one on the heavy side here. Everyone gave you a polite answer, and I was as direct as I can be. Also, no one called you young and stupid. In case you didn't realize it, that was me I was referring to.

You're just upset because no one gave you the answer you wanted to hear. Good luck with your suspension mods.

deputydog95

I can't believe I'm even continuing this...

Yes, I realized that you were referring to yourself.
Yes, you need to lighten up.
No, I'm not mad that two people on here do not agree with me.
You being polite...No. Sarcastic and condescending...Yes.

Just for the record, I spoke to the tech at cargraphic today. Their springs are built at H&R's factory to cargaphic's specifications. Their springs are also TUV approved. The tech has a 996 with 30K miles on the stock suspension and their lowering springs with no problems at all. He said ride is slightly stiffer than stock (but not diminished) and highly recommends them to someone who wants reduced ride height and does not track the car. He also said that they have sold dozens and dozens of springs for 996's with no complaints.

Just because you think it should be done one way, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.

I'm done.

fahren affair

no.

both factory suspension kits for the base 996 (row m030 and x74) provide new front struts and rear dampers that are specifically valved for the shorter--and higher rate--springs. porsche doesn't offer a kit with just springs and anti-roll bars alone.

if you want to drop your car 30mm and do it right, the x74 is a no-brainer.

jetskied

If some of you **** guys read the PCA article on sport suspensions yes they don't recomend mixing shocks and springs. However use some reasoning when you make your decission. The PCA is not gonna recomend mixing due to possible legal reasons. If you also look at the data the US M030 shocks were alot softer than the standard set up. The US M030 springs are the same rate as the ROW M030. The reasoning that the shocks and spring don't match is dangerous is blown out of the water here. Also the ROW front shcok was a little softer than the std. shocks. The rear shock were different where both sport suspension were stiffer than the std shocks. IMO the sport suspension shock set up the car for more oversteer and make the car hav a better turn in. I have used the Eibach on stock shocks and they did work OK. The problem was that the car was a little low for my driveway and switch to ROW. It raised the car 1/2 inch. The bouncing and mis handling as many of these so called experts are talking about will only be notice under extreme use, and I think for a street use only it will be OK. The ride is gonna get harsh, but you will get that anytime you stiffen the springs. The guys who actually believe that the PSS9 can ride as soft as stock and great on the track is delusional. 1st in order to ride near stock the spring must be the same rate as the stocks. If it was gonna handle like the X74 it can not happen unless the springs are substantially stiffer than stock. I don't know the actuall rate on the PSS9, but in order to get the best of both worlds the rates are probably some where between the X74 and Std or more like a M030. The adjustable shocks does help give the best of both worlds, it can only do so much. I'm not discourageing the PSS9, I'm sure its a great system. Look if you want to save money and try the H&R then do it. They will work OK if your not tracking the car . Its not optimal, but you can always put on some Bilstein later too. Just my 0.02

Greg Fishman

Go ahead and buy just the springs and install them. Then a year or so later when you are pissed that your car doesn't handle or ride right, trade it in to the dealer. Then a real enthusiast, who has done his homework, will buy the car and put the right suspension on it and love it.

Trojan Man

Let me try to put it another way:

I come from a family of pilots, and we have owned everything from a Cessna 172 (The Honda Civic of planes) to a BAE Hawker jet (the GT2 of planes). The simple fact is that parts for the jet cost a hell of a lot more than the parts for a Cessna.

There is no way that I would try to make a solution designed for a Cessna try to work on a Hawker - not only would it not pass FAA inspection, it would be plain unsafe.

The same comparison can be made with cars. Can you JUST change springs on your P-car? Yes. Will it affect you right away? Probably not. However, the ride quality would be diminished and eventually safety just might become an issue (like when you're cruising a canyon 6 months down the line and a deer is in the middle of the road forcing you to swerve...only you start to lose the car instead).

The fact is that dampers are valved to respond to a certain rebound rate of a matching spring. Once you change either part of that equation, you have a mismatch and the possibility for a bad ride at the least and a fatal condition at the worst.

Finally, with all due respect to DeputyDog, if all you do is drive in a straight line on buttery roads then
1. Why do you have a Porsche?
2. Why did you bother changing anything with respect to suspension?

I think that most of the people inquiring about performance mods are people who enjoy driving their cars aggressively (some people might call it dangerously) , and that should be the standard of judgment for reliability and performance of any car mod.

earlyapex

This thread is going the wrong direction with personal attacks. I don't think I'm delusional that the PSS9's on the 40th Anniversary 911 ride better and handle better than the stock M030. Here's a picture of my car with PSS0's and a friend with his C2 and H&R springs at Thunderhill. The 40th is a special car where all of its bits and pieces have been made to work together. Why go cheap and get lowering springs at the expense of performance. Do it right the first time and get a set of springs and shocks that have been designed to work together. Go with what ever brand you like, but get something designed to work together.

deputydog95

Trojan:

Why do I have a Porsche? Because I can. I love the way the car looks and drives. Simple as that. I had a boxster and it was the logical upgrade. Not everybody buys a porsche to race at club events or drive like a maniac on the public streets. Some of us just like to drive with the top down in a cool german car. I do my track time on my aprilia. Track time in a car just doesn't do it for me.

Why would I want to change the suspension? For the same reason I put cargraphic 19's on, a cargraphic exhaust, and the turbo bumper. Just adds to the car. I love the way it looks and sounds. Looks kind of funky all jacked up on the stock suspension.

When I did coilovers on my bmw, it just seemed like major overkill. I never once adjusted them. Could have saved a bunch of money even doing just springs AND shocks.

You may have convinced me to at least throw some bilsteins on with the cargraphic springs. I never debated the longetivity issues with installation of just springs. The coilovers for this application just don't make sense for what I want to do. I will never crank it up to firm, and I don't want to bury the top of my tire in the fender wells.

So with that in mind:
In conjunction with the cargraphic springs...
Bilstein HD or Sports. I have read that most people use HD's with lowering springs. However, the HD's are listed for use with oem shocks and the Sports are listed as to be used with lowering springs. So what gives there? Which is the proper one to use?

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Are you for real?

deputydog95

Yes. Why?