Is RMS really that big of a deal
06-24-2004, 08:17 PM
#46
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Thanks for the replies to my post. At this point all I can say is that I will keep abreast of the situation. I certainly won't presume to tell Porsche how to run their business, and we may see no change until sales are affected.
06-24-2004, 08:25 PM
#48
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n4das:
What kind of car. Do you have any pictures. Cracked cylinders. Where is the cracked cylinder crowd? Funny, my dealer has never even had a 996 with an RMS issue. He has seen it on a couple of 986s, but no 996s. Cracked cylinders. I have not heard about that problem either.
This post turned out to be a personal crusade of those with a bone to pick with Porsche, those with no prior posts or to those looking for reasons to validate a purchase other than a Porsche.
Are you saying that Porsche's warranty does not cover and RMS leak if the leaks occurs during the warranty period.
What kind of car. Do you have any pictures. Cracked cylinders. Where is the cracked cylinder crowd? Funny, my dealer has never even had a 996 with an RMS issue. He has seen it on a couple of 986s, but no 996s. Cracked cylinders. I have not heard about that problem either.
This post turned out to be a personal crusade of those with a bone to pick with Porsche, those with no prior posts or to those looking for reasons to validate a purchase other than a Porsche.
Are you saying that Porsche's warranty does not cover and RMS leak if the leaks occurs during the warranty period.
06-24-2004, 08:52 PM
#49
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Dough
I think you have me wrong. I have no bones to pick with Porsche my late farther owned a few which never gave any problems and were fully maintained by Porsche
I am a young doctor and waited for the day that i was able to afford one of my own. I bought my car with all the expectations that i had had as a child growing up.
What baffles me is that knowing that there are issues with the engine and knowing that in the UK the sales of goods act covers latent defects Porsche GB are still holding on to the notion that they are right
The "cracked cylinder 996 band" live in the North West of England. I live in Wilmslow a place better know for Manchester United football Players especially David B
In the Uk if your car is under warranty (only 2 years) the RMS issue is covered but most of our cars are greater than 2 years as we hardly use them cover less than 5k per year. I have never raced my car, it gets washed in a covered car park and has never travelled more than 100miles at any one time
I have been and always will be pro Porsche as a car, I have so far owned performance versions of BMWs, Hondas, Aston Martin and Mercs, what my gripe is to do with the way that the dealer and Porsche GB are dealing with what are catrstropic failures.
I have not been given a loan car from the dealer, I am on call 3-4 days a week. I have an inexperienced lady on the other end of the phone in Porsche GB who feels that a 5% reduction of a $20,000 bill is "overly
generous"
Finally to dispell any myth that i am anti Porsche i have on order a new 997 and a boxter for my sister. Just within my close circle of friends we have 6 cars on order and 5 of us drive Porsches.
I don't know if it is the case that your dealer does not want to admit there is an issue or just that we have been the ones to get the doggy engines in the uk
I think you have me wrong. I have no bones to pick with Porsche my late farther owned a few which never gave any problems and were fully maintained by Porsche
I am a young doctor and waited for the day that i was able to afford one of my own. I bought my car with all the expectations that i had had as a child growing up.
What baffles me is that knowing that there are issues with the engine and knowing that in the UK the sales of goods act covers latent defects Porsche GB are still holding on to the notion that they are right
The "cracked cylinder 996 band" live in the North West of England. I live in Wilmslow a place better know for Manchester United football Players especially David B
In the Uk if your car is under warranty (only 2 years) the RMS issue is covered but most of our cars are greater than 2 years as we hardly use them cover less than 5k per year. I have never raced my car, it gets washed in a covered car park and has never travelled more than 100miles at any one time
I have been and always will be pro Porsche as a car, I have so far owned performance versions of BMWs, Hondas, Aston Martin and Mercs, what my gripe is to do with the way that the dealer and Porsche GB are dealing with what are catrstropic failures.
I have not been given a loan car from the dealer, I am on call 3-4 days a week. I have an inexperienced lady on the other end of the phone in Porsche GB who feels that a 5% reduction of a $20,000 bill is "overly
generous"
Finally to dispell any myth that i am anti Porsche i have on order a new 997 and a boxter for my sister. Just within my close circle of friends we have 6 cars on order and 5 of us drive Porsches.
I don't know if it is the case that your dealer does not want to admit there is an issue or just that we have been the ones to get the doggy engines in the uk
06-24-2004, 09:31 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Doug you might be right in your summary. But I think your comments are rather nasty IMHO. This RMS flaw pops up week in week out. I bet we will see another RMS related thread posted here before the months out. It's that common. It's that worrying.
When I visted my dealer last week, there were no less than 3 996s up in the air having their RMS fixed. And they had a box full of oily used up failed seals from past repairs. If your dealer is telling you he hasn't fixed a 996 RMS before I would say he's pulling your plonker.
Your signature reads like the front dispay room of a Porsche dealer. Your one lucky guy to be able to afford such a gorgious set of cars
2004 996 C2, 2003 996 TT, 03 Cayenne and if that's not enough a 1990 C2 Ruf Cab to boot. You are obviously in a financial position where if any one of those cars had an engine blow up you could absorbe the cost easily regardless of warranty. You obviosly love your porkers and hate to hear anything bad said about them. If I were lucky enough to be in your position I would probably be defensive too. But some of us are not lucky enough to be in that position and this forum seems a good place to vent opinions good or bad about engine problems in the 996. Anyone has a right to air their views & opinions here so your summary is unfounded. I may be a Brit but I believe it is your country that toutes the term "Freedom of Speech". That's what we are all doing here....including you and that's fair enough IMO but at least don't be nasty about it.
Finally, I don't know n4das and I must admit to also not having heard of
996s with cylinder heads cracking (but I must admit to being worried having read his posts). Nevertheless, he is having a real hard time there with his porker. Even if the poor guy is a newbie to this board he deserves some support from us rennlisters at least. So lets just give him a break.
When I visted my dealer last week, there were no less than 3 996s up in the air having their RMS fixed. And they had a box full of oily used up failed seals from past repairs. If your dealer is telling you he hasn't fixed a 996 RMS before I would say he's pulling your plonker.
Your signature reads like the front dispay room of a Porsche dealer. Your one lucky guy to be able to afford such a gorgious set of cars
2004 996 C2, 2003 996 TT, 03 Cayenne and if that's not enough a 1990 C2 Ruf Cab to boot. You are obviously in a financial position where if any one of those cars had an engine blow up you could absorbe the cost easily regardless of warranty. You obviosly love your porkers and hate to hear anything bad said about them. If I were lucky enough to be in your position I would probably be defensive too. But some of us are not lucky enough to be in that position and this forum seems a good place to vent opinions good or bad about engine problems in the 996. Anyone has a right to air their views & opinions here so your summary is unfounded. I may be a Brit but I believe it is your country that toutes the term "Freedom of Speech". That's what we are all doing here....including you and that's fair enough IMO but at least don't be nasty about it.
Finally, I don't know n4das and I must admit to also not having heard of
996s with cylinder heads cracking (but I must admit to being worried having read his posts). Nevertheless, he is having a real hard time there with his porker. Even if the poor guy is a newbie to this board he deserves some support from us rennlisters at least. So lets just give him a break.
06-24-2004, 11:21 PM
#53
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Originally posted by Scouser
Oh! and peace brother. No offence intended. Honestly!
Oh! and peace brother. No offence intended. Honestly!
06-24-2004, 11:36 PM
#54
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The question really only came up because me and someone at work were discussing potential concerns about getting a 00 or 01 996 cabriolet for a garage queen. I had once thought that it better to buy one with warranty if only to cover the possibility of an RMS leak. Upon reflection, I had an epithiney so to speak that even with an RMS failure, the 996 may no more expensive to maintain than other Porsche models and thought I would share. Nothing more, nothing less.
A Porsche is both a large financial commitment and well as an emotional/personal investment for some. Perhaps that is why when things go wrong, people get very upset and are very vocal about it. IMO, an RMS leak is not of such a magnitude that that it should deter one from purchasing a vehicle that alot of us have fantacized about owning and driving since a young age. I think most that are in a position to afford such an investment are intelligent enough to weigh their options and to balance the considerations that are involved in making such a purchase to determne whether a Porsche is right for them.
With regard to my service manager, he shoots very straight with me and has never been hesitant about informing me of both the bad as well as the good. After having dealt with these folks, I would put more stock in what they say then what I read on the internet for the most part. This is not imply that you or others on here have not had an RMS problem. I am just speaking in general terms.
A Porsche is both a large financial commitment and well as an emotional/personal investment for some. Perhaps that is why when things go wrong, people get very upset and are very vocal about it. IMO, an RMS leak is not of such a magnitude that that it should deter one from purchasing a vehicle that alot of us have fantacized about owning and driving since a young age. I think most that are in a position to afford such an investment are intelligent enough to weigh their options and to balance the considerations that are involved in making such a purchase to determne whether a Porsche is right for them.
With regard to my service manager, he shoots very straight with me and has never been hesitant about informing me of both the bad as well as the good. After having dealt with these folks, I would put more stock in what they say then what I read on the internet for the most part. This is not imply that you or others on here have not had an RMS problem. I am just speaking in general terms.
06-24-2004, 11:47 PM
#55
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Doug H:
The issue really isn't so much an RMS. It's simply a gasket. Don't replace it and your oil costs would be minimal (if the clutch doesn't slip.)
It's what the leak indicates. It is a sign, that the crankshaft and the transmission are out of line ... And that is a big deal. For those of us out of warranty its $10,000. If I were racing, I wouldn't complain because my use would be indefensable. But even garage queens are getting it.
I'm putting my 997 on hold. They have altered the block, but time will tell if the fix works.
The issue really isn't so much an RMS. It's simply a gasket. Don't replace it and your oil costs would be minimal (if the clutch doesn't slip.)
It's what the leak indicates. It is a sign, that the crankshaft and the transmission are out of line ... And that is a big deal. For those of us out of warranty its $10,000. If I were racing, I wouldn't complain because my use would be indefensable. But even garage queens are getting it.
I'm putting my 997 on hold. They have altered the block, but time will tell if the fix works.
06-25-2004, 12:07 AM
#56
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Now your raising the stakes on me. I thought we were dealing with a $ 1,000 repair, not a $ 10,000 repair. If the repair was costing everyone $ 10,000, I would not view it as "no big deal." Is $ 10,000 the cost of a new engine? How many people have actually had the $ 10,000 repair or had a repair that was in the $ 10,000 magnitude and what percentage of those folks having a RMS leak have had a $ 10,000 repair as opposed to a $ 1,000 repair.
06-25-2004, 06:59 AM
#57
Three Wheelin'
I hate to say it Doug but I could be one them.
My gearbox is well screwed and the engine still has it's 5th RMS to be done.
So it is likely that the engine will have to be replace too. I won't get any financial help from Porsche with this. This "is" the point.
The car's only done 38,000 miles and its in its 5th year. The gearbox and RMS problems started at 24,000 miles in its 3rd year. But they have led
me up the garden path for so long changing RMS's to finally tell me to
go fish because both gearbox and engine are too hosed to repair.
And all along it's been their fault: flawed design, flawed seal, flawed service department that should have put it right 1st time.
The point is, the RMS problem is a design flaw and if not fixed "properly" it will eventually lead to engine and/or gearbox failure.
Now do you see that it "is a big issue"?
My gearbox is well screwed and the engine still has it's 5th RMS to be done.
So it is likely that the engine will have to be replace too. I won't get any financial help from Porsche with this. This "is" the point.
The car's only done 38,000 miles and its in its 5th year. The gearbox and RMS problems started at 24,000 miles in its 3rd year. But they have led
me up the garden path for so long changing RMS's to finally tell me to
go fish because both gearbox and engine are too hosed to repair.
And all along it's been their fault: flawed design, flawed seal, flawed service department that should have put it right 1st time.
The point is, the RMS problem is a design flaw and if not fixed "properly" it will eventually lead to engine and/or gearbox failure.
Now do you see that it "is a big issue"?
06-25-2004, 10:11 AM
#58
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Whats the way Forward?
To keep the forum informed:
I had a long chat with the service manager (20 years experience) from my local Porsche centre and it makes for great reading.
He informs me that issues with 996 engines are numerous. For what ever reason total engine replacements on 996s are not uncommon on low mileage cars. He told me that in the last month he has had 5 996s that needed total engine replacements.
As with the above threads, the problem is something that may affect you when you hit between 30-50k in a Porsche. Even with an extended warranty these issues are not covered in cars over 5 years. (the warranty does not even cover oil leaks).
The question is do you buy one of these cars knwing that they may go wrong and that you will have no choice but to pay £10,000 or about $17,000 out of your own own pocket after trying all you can to protect your investment
I had a long chat with the service manager (20 years experience) from my local Porsche centre and it makes for great reading.
He informs me that issues with 996 engines are numerous. For what ever reason total engine replacements on 996s are not uncommon on low mileage cars. He told me that in the last month he has had 5 996s that needed total engine replacements.
As with the above threads, the problem is something that may affect you when you hit between 30-50k in a Porsche. Even with an extended warranty these issues are not covered in cars over 5 years. (the warranty does not even cover oil leaks).
The question is do you buy one of these cars knwing that they may go wrong and that you will have no choice but to pay £10,000 or about $17,000 out of your own own pocket after trying all you can to protect your investment
06-25-2004, 10:22 AM
#59
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Whats the way Forward?
To keep the forum informed:
I had a long chat with the service manager (20 years experience) from my local Porsche centre and it makes for great reading.
He informs me that issues with 996 engines are numerous. For what ever reason total engine replacements on 996s are not uncommon on low mileage cars. He told me that in the last month he has had 5 996s that needed total engine replacements.
As with the above threads, the problem is something that may affect you when you hit between 30-50k in a Porsche. Even with an extended warranty these issues are not covered in cars over 5 years. (the warranty does not even cover oil leaks).
The question is do you buy one of these cars knowing that they may go wrong and that you will have no choice but to pay £10,000 or about $17,000 out of your own own pocket after trying all you can to protect your investment!
The RMS issue on its own may not be a big deal costing $800 but eventually the engine will go and that is a fact. You will need a replacement at some point, the time interval is unknown, the question is who will be the owner at that point? It may well be you.
I think that it is important that people know about these issues. The better informed you are in making a decision on your purchase. As a group of people, may be Porsche may listen to us and realize that we are loyal to the brand but when there is a mistake on their part they should just own up and not waste everbodys time and money
I had a long chat with the service manager (20 years experience) from my local Porsche centre and it makes for great reading.
He informs me that issues with 996 engines are numerous. For what ever reason total engine replacements on 996s are not uncommon on low mileage cars. He told me that in the last month he has had 5 996s that needed total engine replacements.
As with the above threads, the problem is something that may affect you when you hit between 30-50k in a Porsche. Even with an extended warranty these issues are not covered in cars over 5 years. (the warranty does not even cover oil leaks).
The question is do you buy one of these cars knowing that they may go wrong and that you will have no choice but to pay £10,000 or about $17,000 out of your own own pocket after trying all you can to protect your investment!
The RMS issue on its own may not be a big deal costing $800 but eventually the engine will go and that is a fact. You will need a replacement at some point, the time interval is unknown, the question is who will be the owner at that point? It may well be you.
I think that it is important that people know about these issues. The better informed you are in making a decision on your purchase. As a group of people, may be Porsche may listen to us and realize that we are loyal to the brand but when there is a mistake on their part they should just own up and not waste everbodys time and money
06-25-2004, 07:04 PM
#60
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n4das, 5 engine replacemnts in last month. Hahaha, you are overdoing it a bit now.
RE: RMS eventually leading to engine replacement
Give me statistics or figures and I would be inclined to agree with you. If you notice, I started this thread out with a question and now after 50 something posts the stakes have been raised from $ 800 repairs to everyone needing a new engine.
(1) How many people on this board have had to have an engine replaced due to RMS failure (or had an engine replaced for any reason for that matter).
(2) How many people have had the RMS replaced more than twice.
If what Scouser or Torags is saying is true about RMS leading to an ineveitable engine replacement, let me see some numbers to back that up and I will whole heartedly join the campaign. I love class action stuff. If the numbers don't back it up, I think you guys are being disingenuous to state that in effort to prove a point or support your cause. I, however, am very open minded, especially if the numbers are there to support it.
BTW, Scouser, I think I said this before. Your situation does seem like one of those were the engine should have been replaced by what you are saying. I am just curious if this is the norm or the rare extreme instance. These cars have been on the road long enough that if what you are saying is true, there should be a whole lot of people out there getting new motors.
I am pretty good friends with someone at my dealer and to my knowledge they have replaced only one motor in a new 996 and they actually called me to see if I knew any one that wanted to buy it at an unreal huge price reduction.
RE: RMS eventually leading to engine replacement
Give me statistics or figures and I would be inclined to agree with you. If you notice, I started this thread out with a question and now after 50 something posts the stakes have been raised from $ 800 repairs to everyone needing a new engine.
(1) How many people on this board have had to have an engine replaced due to RMS failure (or had an engine replaced for any reason for that matter).
(2) How many people have had the RMS replaced more than twice.
If what Scouser or Torags is saying is true about RMS leading to an ineveitable engine replacement, let me see some numbers to back that up and I will whole heartedly join the campaign. I love class action stuff. If the numbers don't back it up, I think you guys are being disingenuous to state that in effort to prove a point or support your cause. I, however, am very open minded, especially if the numbers are there to support it.
BTW, Scouser, I think I said this before. Your situation does seem like one of those were the engine should have been replaced by what you are saying. I am just curious if this is the norm or the rare extreme instance. These cars have been on the road long enough that if what you are saying is true, there should be a whole lot of people out there getting new motors.
I am pretty good friends with someone at my dealer and to my knowledge they have replaced only one motor in a new 996 and they actually called me to see if I knew any one that wanted to buy it at an unreal huge price reduction.