Gnome

Has anyone had an RMS leak AFTER getting a replacement engine?

Probably hard to figure the odds on getting two faulty engines in a row. But, if it turns out the replacement engines DON'T leak, what's different about them and why hasn't that been incorporated into all engines?

Tool Pants

Well, then Porsche hired the wrong company to market the production Boxster in 1996. I have the brochures going back to 1992. There was no pictures back then since it was a concept car. More reliable and no shared parts. I have a January 1997 which was sold next to the 993. No 996 back then. It was a modern water cooled design.

I think the 986/996 is a great car. I would buy a used one if it had a warranty that covered known problems. Have your friend check with the companies, but I think he will find most do not cover oil seals.

Jan_M

hmmm. I think Doug H has an interesting angle here. Aircooled are expensive to maintain and spread out over a couple of years of ownership, the 996, even with RMS might be an OK deal. New way to rationalize are always welcome

Carlos from Spain

The point about the RMS issue is:

- Its not part of regular maintenance, its a inherent factory defect that Porsche knowingly ignores, its not a wear and tear like other issues on older air cooled models.

- Porsche has choosen to ignore it and not fix it in over 7 years and knowingly sells the cars with this defect, but will not extend warranty for the RMS. Should the owner pay for it when out of warranty?

An RMS leak is not a big deal, even if out of warranty its just an 800€ job (unless you need new engine or clutch/flywheel), the big deal is that after 7 years Porsche will still not extend warranty over a known defect in their engines that they continue to sell to their customers regardless without fixing it or even admiting that such an issue even exists.

But seems Porsche will only take responsability of the issue by fixing it in future carreras or at least extending warranty for it, if its pressured to do so, thats why the issue should be made a big deal. Who can be against that? That is the big deal about RMS, that has to insult the principles of most good people here, except for those that are more worried about their "$100k investment sitting in their garage" and selfishly want to keep the issue quiet and downplay it so as not to hurt their resale, like RR's case.

Sorry RR if I hurt your resale but some of us are lobbying for a bigger cause than your investment here

sly

So the RMS problem is no big deal because other Porsche models have even worse problems. Somehow I don't find that line of reasoning comforting. I don't think many of us would complain when cars experience problems because they are raced regularly. Cars stressed to their limits on the track are likely to have problems. But what I'm reading on this Board is that cars that are rarely if ever tracked are experiencing RMS problems.

I was attracted to Porsches because they had the reputation of building high performance, high quality, durable sports cars, and most importantly, Porsche stood by their product. I have to admit that I'm now questioning my initial perception. The high performance is still there, but the quality, durability, and Porsche's standing by their product are all in question in my mind.

Doug H

BTW, I have no problem with you guys going after Porsche about it to try and get Porsche to cover it, pay for the repairs or solve the problem. I would probably do the same thing if I had an RMS issue. I just think the 996, overall, is a good dependable car and the RMS issue gets taken out of perspective. It does not seem like a rational reason to avoid the 996 based solely on cost of the repair and likely hood of the failure occurring.

oldtimer

Agree with you there Doug. As my wife would say, "its only a car dear" , just consider it to be part of the cost of ownership if you are unlucky, chances are that you will not be unlucky.
I've been buying used Porsches for several decades now, I never expect them to be the most economical car to buy and run, but they are the most useable and reliable supercar. The 996 especially so. Maybe I've been softened up by the running cost of my 964RS......

Toreador

Just compare Porsche maintenance and reliability to other sports car manufacturers like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maseratti, and Aston... you'll quickly realize that the Porsches are bulletproof by comparison. And cheap to maintain, too.

Scouser

I think the issue is that some of you are getting out of context on what the issue is with the RMS in the 996 and what it means to you.

If anyone has a gripe on the car's reliability it should be me. Here I am the
proud owner of one absolutely gorgeous 996 Carrera Cabriolet. Had it since new (my 3rd Porker BTW). It's now just on 4 yrs old and I am at it's 5th, yes "FIFTH" RMS failure. The gearbox is screwed, there's a scream coming from somewhere when I start my car every now and then. It rattles like f*ck and so on. But.....despite all this, I just did a 700 mile round trip yesterday over to France, I got 28.1 Mpg with an average speed of 85 MPH. The weather here has been horribly wet......yet my little beauty never murmured once. There and back without a single cough!

Yes. It is reliable. No doubt about it. It's reliable enough to be your daily
driver. So no questions, if's or but's. It is reliable. OK. Great. Now that's outa the way.....

The point is not its reliability. It's the fact that Porsche are "STILL" pushing out these $100,000 cars with engines that have 7 years+ of history of RMS
problems and they don't seem to be making any effort to fix it or to help their loyal customers. Not to mention that Porsche are the developers of this so called most advanced German engineering quality. Yet their 996/986 engines "STILL" have a freakin design flaw with this RMS. But worse than this, they know very well about this flaw but won't acknowledge it and on top of this they even expect you to pay to fix it when your warranty runs out.

For you guys that have cars under warranty the RMS issue is not a problem for you......yet! But for you guys that have out of warranty cars and have yet to suffer the RMS problem, or maybe you're like me and have had several RMS problems already......you can't tell me when you take this baby out on the road you ain't scared about your RMS blowing out on you.

You know I just don't see why some of you are arguing on this issue. It's not about reliability. It's about design failure, cost of ownership on something that has a design flaw, cost of running something that has a design flaw, having trust in your investment knowing that this design flaw exists, the horrible thought that the RMS problem could inflict your gorgeous beauty next time you take it on the road, knowing that you won't get
any help from Porsche AG if your engine is screwed......your on your lonesome.

I want to point one other important issue out: this concept that a leaking RMS is nothing to worry about. A leaking RMS can lead to any of the following:

* lack of pressure and ultimately engine destruction
* wear and/or tear of the crankshaft and/or crank bearing housing.
* crankshaft and/or bearing failure
* crankshaft distortion (concentricity misalignment)
* Clutch failure or contamination
* flywheel and/or thrust bearing failure or contamination
* gearbox damage due to crank wobble

None of these items are trivial to fix. They are all costly. The chance of
any of these things happening to your car would be "greatly" reduced
if not completely, if the RMS problem did not exist. If you are out of
warranty then Porsche will ask you to cough up the readies.

So after saying all this, I think the main point is simply this:
Give me one good reason to stay loyal to Porsche and invest in the 997?
They certainly haven't stayed loyal to me. They just sucked my pockets
dry and still want more. My car and my pocket are still crying out for help! What guarantee have I that the RMS problem has gone away in the 997 and will be covered by a "long term" or even lifetime guarantee?

You know the irony of all this is that if Porsche had just replaced my engine and gearbox under warranty when it the problems first occurred (just 3 weeks out of warranty) I would almost definitely be buying a 997 right now and I almost definitely would not have done all this bitching.

For all you guys sitting on the tight rope with your out of warranty 996/986. Best of luck to you...... you'll need it.

Torags

How many of those cars are daily drivers. Those names almost define UNdependability.

PAG is marketing to a larger group who uses the cars for transportation, not some seldom used toy.

They're competing with BMW, MBZ. BMW increased warranties when they had an engine problem. It's time for PAG to stand with the big boys if they want to play in that sand box.

ignacio

i agree with both points of view:

1. porsche should provide extended warranty coverage for rms leaks--they usually do in the u.s.a.--apparently not on europe judging from carlos and scouser.

2. rms is not a deal breaker for an otherwise very reliable car-- only the 996 tt is better!

peace and remember that preventative 30k mi service for ferrari's is $5-7k without any other problems! i find this a major disincentive to ferrari ownership.

Doug H

Scouser, you are definitely in an unfortunate situation. Sounds like your motor should have been replaced and the failure to replace your motor and fix it with a band aide type repair has resulted in nothing but continued frusteration for you. I agree that is not fair to you, but your situation seems out of the norm. I wouldn't blame you if you did not buy another Porsche, but your agenda seems a bit like you also want to keep others from buying a Porsche which is fine with me. I might feel the same way as you if I had been through all of that. I can tell you that I have had similar to worse experiences with other "fine German brands" and I got rid of those vehicles, purchased a Porsche and vowed never to buy one of those "other brands" again. I have always had excellent support from Porsche though.

Torags

Sure, because you show them your business card, licensed to practice in Tenn.

Doug H

Haha, being a card carrying a-hole does not necessarily mean people won't rip you off.

Torags

I know that, & I don't even have a card. My father in law affrms your definition.

;-)