tzl996

Hi All,
This is not a question about types of IMS replacements or about anything bad happening, not getting a warranty repair or anything like that. Just if an IMS Retrofit was done is it worth even registering the work for the warranty? (Edit: I spelled "Registration" wrong, oof!)

My question is whether, from a prospective buyer point of view, would having the IMS Retrofit warranty from LN Engineering be more valuable than having proof of the work (documentation from mechanic with mileage of the car and date, Sticker with serial # from IMS Retrofit, and the ACTUAL non-damaged pre-emptively removed previous IMS bearing)? I have tried to search for this question but didn’t see it.

I have a TLR version. I recently had a RMS leak and “while you are there” replaced my clutch & flywheel. And “while you are there” did an IMS retrofit only offered by my mechanic, not necessarily recommended by him since the bulk of the labor was already covered. I am guilty of saying “yes” (busy at work during the call) without further research and had the IMS Single Bearing Pro retrofit done last week, not the “Solution”. I now have my intact old bearing, the IMS Retrofit card with the sticker and I have watched their video online about registering for the warranty.

My question, as above, is it even worth doing compared to keeping my bearing, sticker and mechanic paperwork for any prospective buyer? I have also owned my car for over 20 years and have no intention of selling any time soon. Actually, I’m less inclined to sell since I just spent money on repairing it so that I think I should enjoy the money I spent by driving the car (more).

Thanks,
Louie.

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Longer version in case anyone is interested:

I have a 2002 C2 Cabriolet that I bought less than 1 year old with less than 2000 miles on the odometer back in spring 2003. It had a “catastrophic engine failure” in 2004 with about 15-20K miles and the dealer replaced the motor with a new one. I didn’t know about IMS failures in 2004 (have since learned some more, but obviously not enough). The dealer then was very vague about what happened beyond saying there was a “rare defect”, but with my new motor I should just enjoy the car and not worry about it.

It wasn’t until maybe around 2010+ that I learned about IMS failures of 996’s (and early 997s. I have always had the concern of a possible failure at the back of my mind. I have been meticulous about meeting all service intervals and have over 20 years of service records. I’ve repeatedly asked dealers (in the past) and independent Porsche mechanics over the years about doing an IMS repair/replacement. Most have said the risk was low and since I have had no issues, to just do it if I can’t sleep knowing I MIGHT have a problem. So, I never did it before and never really looked at various replacement options.

I’ve owned the car for just over 20 years, and put in just over 60K miles (it was my daily driver for the 1st 3 years where I put in just under 30K, then had kids and was putting in 1-3K per year after that, but in the last year I’ve increased to 5K+). In all that time the car has been surprisingly trouble free. Beyond brakes and 1 clutch my only other work beyond maintenance was replacing the cabrio motors around year 14-15 and ignition coils at year 18. That’s it, the rest was recommended maintenance. (Unfortunately, I don’t know that I’ve ever had a check for bore scoring though.)

Last week I saw a leak, took it in and it was an RMS failure. Since the transmission would be dropped the Indy mechanic that I’ve used for about 5 years suggested clutch/flywheel replacement and offered, if I wanted, an IMS retrofit from LN Engineering. I vaguely knew the name “LN Engineering” but not more than that. Also, he didn’t mention or offer the “Solution” and I only read about it a couple of days later. That was my fault, but in any case, he was not on their “Authorized Installer” list. In retrospect I probably should have left my Porsche IMSB in place and NOT done the retrofit but I was pretty busy at work when the call came in and authorized it. I guess now I have to budget a replacement in 6 years/75K or do the Solution then or earlier.
Anyway, he gave me my IMS bearing, the card with Serial number sticker and instructions to register for a “Warranty”.

But when I looked into it, the warranty is only 2 years/24K and assuming I read the warranty details only seems to cover the IMS bearing if it fails, not an engine replacement or other more extensive work.

Also, if I read the info correctly it only pays $50/hour for the labor rate and only up to the value of the bearing. I don’t know any Porsche mechanics that would take $50/hour. I could be mistaken about this.

Further, I think the warranty only covers me if I followed their procedure that mentions using a specific break in oil. I didn’t do that. So, I don’t know if I would even be covered. Note, I did email LN Engineering a couple of days ago asking the same question about whether I may be covered since we didn’t do the break in oil treatment. Being a long weekend, I don’t expect a response for a while (if ever).

I think LN Engineering will send me back my bearing (in pieces after their inspection) if I pay their shipping so I can still register with them and MAYBE get their warranty, though since I didn’t use the break in oil, I can’t be sure. But to a potential buyer, would it be equally valuable to know I had the work done, show them the paperwork and LN Serial # (even if not registered), and show them the intact bearing so they know the work was done pre-emptively? We could even open the seal together if they want. Obviously in retrospect, knowing what I know now, I would have either avoided the retrofit or tried to look into who could do the “Solution” and be one and done with it.

Again, as I’ve owned the car since March 2003 and had no intention of selling at all, or at least any time soon unless I have some other life change that I’m not expecting, it seems like a 2-year warranty that won’t cover much might not even be worth the shipping costs of the bearing to get the registration done. In the reading I have done it looks like getting the Retrofit doesn’t really help any else’s piece of mind and only the “Solution” has any value.

So any advice about not bothering with the registration, or just go ahead and do it anyway? Thanks everyone,

Louie.

Charles Navarro

If you do change your mind and decide you want to sell the car, a buyer is going to question why you did not register the bearing. We have had countless vehicle owners contact us years later wanting their bearing registration added to the online database after the fact.

We do disassemble and photograph each used bearing and all supporting documentation is stored in our database which can be used to verify installation for future potential buyers. I'd say we probably have at least one person contact us a day wanting to validate an installation.

tzl996

Mr. Navarro,
Thank you for responding. I guess the value would be that a 3rd party could verify my bearing was intact? I'm just not sure that I did anything correctly to even get a warranty. Also, the website directed to me for registration by the IMS Retrofit card links to PDFs and appears a bit confusing.

https://imsretrofit.com/warranty-registration-step-1/

To register I looked at the "IMS Retrofit Limited Warranty" pdf on that site.

In the PDF it writes:
"In order to be eligible for replacement parts under this warranty you MUST return the warranty
registration form attached below within thirty (30) days of installation.
AND
You MUST send the original IMS bearing and flange UNCLEANED in a ziplock bag to:
LN Engineering LLC
125 Gladiolus Street
P.O. Box 401
Momence, IL 60954,
with a copy of the invoice showing professional installation of the IMS Retrofit within the
warranty period. Single Row Pro registrations should NOT be sent to LN Engineering; they
must be returned to IMS Solution LLC for processing, as they are not an LN Engineering
product."

Higher up on the same pdf there is no mention of the Single Row Pro at all. But my card says I should send the registration and bearing to LN Engineering LLC, 125 Gladiolus St, Momence IL 60954" where the PDF says NOT to send it.

My part was 106-08-2.2 (Single Row Pro). The PDF says that part is from IMS Solutions, but I find my part on the LN Engineering website as SKU: 106-08.2.2:

https://lnengineering.com/products/t...-106-0822.html

So that was also confusing.

Also, is the requirement for an authorized installer only for the Solution? I live outside of Seattle now and only Chris German auto is authorized. The retrofit was at an Indy shop specializing in German cars including Porsche. Would that be fine for the retrofit?

It also has a warranty exclusion of:
• Damage/failure resulting from the use of inappropriate engine oil viscosity; a Porsche
approved engine oil viscosity is required (LN Engineering LLC recommends Joe Gibbs DT40 or
XP9 engine oil).

I think I've been getting Mobil 1 (can't recall the exact viscosity at the moment) with my oil changes, as that was in my manual and done by both Porsche dealerships and the Indy dealerships.

Finally, when I was looking at Service intervals under the "imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/" page for Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit it writes 6 year/75000 miles being valid for:

"Service interval recommendations are valid only with use of Joe Gibbs BR break in oil during the new IMS bearing break-in period of 200-400 miles along with use of an LN Engineering Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter with subsequent oil changes at 6 months or 5,000 miles using Joe Gibbs DT40. Severe service interval is 3 months or 3,000 miles."

I don't have the Spin-on Oil filter adapter, I didn't use the Joe Gibbs break in oil. So is there a service interval for Mobil 1 oil?

So it looks like I did everything incorrectly and wonder would I get any warranty? Would Mobil 1 be ok to use, though I could change my intervals to every 5000 miles/6 months going forward but I still don't have the Spin-On oil filter adapter. Perhaps too late to get it now as I've already driven 100+ miles since the part was installed 4 days ago.

It was for all those reasons I wondered if I should just keep my parts and documentation. But maybe having a 3rd party, your company LN Engineering, to verify the bearing was fine might be good enough without a warranty?

At least now I know what to do next. I'm hoping this replacement is at least as robust as the original Porsche bearing so when I make it to my next clutch work I can convert to a more permanent option.

Hopefully you can shed light on using Mobil 1 service interval and and if an Indy shop for a retrofit (not Solution I understand) is adequate. If not, others may take this as a warning about having the IMS retrofit installed at an unauthorized mechanic. If requested I can also send you the information about the shop that did the work. Thanks for your response.


Louie.

tzl996

Hi again,

Hate to respond to my own post. First, I do want to thank Mr. Navarro for even taking the time to read my message on a weekend, and holiday weekend at that!

I think I didn't see the big picture before or understand the warranty. The warranty is only for the bearing and that assumes that it was installed correctly and the pre-qualification procedure was followed. Though I spent over $6K for all the work, I can be pretty certain that the pre-qualification was not done or at least not completely. I am positive a bore scope inspection was not done or I would have paid more. I also saw no info about a Crankcase Manometer test. If done it was not documented. So with just those 2 items I think I would be disqualified for a warranty. Though to be honest if I had a catastrophic engine failure, getting re-imbursed for a bearing would be the least of my concerns.

I am now more certain that I should have probably just had the RMS repaired and clutchwork. Fortunately, from what I saw of my bill, my mechanic only charged me for the labor of the RMS (enough on its own!) and clutch, and didn't seem to add anything for the bearing figuring all the labor was already paid for. If I was going to deal with the IMS it should have been a full "Solution" so I could just do it once. Washington state only has 1 authorized installer of the IMS Solution, but that installer it turns out was just 6 or so miles from my house, so my fault on that.

So I guess ultimately I have just 2 questions (and maybe I will get an email response next week from LN Engineering), but I guess it is correct to send in my current bearing just to be inspected by them and then put in their database to document that it was fine and when it was done? I would think they might do that even when they can't warranty the part.

Two, is it still ok to get Mobil 1 oil changes or do I need to insist on a different oil for the health of this new IMS Bearing? I'll likely change my intervals now to every 6 months. I wonder if I should now ask for an oil analysis? It looks like I should get a magnetic fuel cap going forward.

That's it, thanks to anyone reading.

Louie.

sasilverbullet

You should be running Driven DT-40 with a 4K mile OCI (oil change interval), or 1 year if you don't drive it much. That oil is specially formulated for our engines, Mobil 1 is not.

Charles Navarro

We recommend a 6 month or 5,000 mi oil change interval using Driven DT40. I'm surprised there are still shops using M1 as there are many better choices than the A40 approved M1. Many shops now offer Liqui-Moly A40 approved oils as an alternative which can be supplemented with LM Ceratec to add the required moly friction modifiers these engines need to address cylinder bore scoring issues. And no, Ceratec is not needed if you run DT40 as it already has more friction modifiers than an A40 supplemented with Ceratec.

With regards to installation and registration, you do not need to use a Certified Installer to have your IMS bearing installed and warrantied. A Certified Installer however would have offered you the choice between an IMS Retrofit and IMS Solution. I don't know what your shop did or didn't do, but Certified Installers are required to carry out pre-qualification procedures and would have known better about using M1 in your engine. If not using a Certified Installer, it's up to the customer to make sure the shop doing bearing replacement meets our requirements. I would still recommend following the instructions for registration of your IMS bearing.

All IMS Retrofit and IMS Solution registrations are handled by LN Engineering, so as long as you send your original bearing to LN after doing the online portion of the registration first, it will be processed.

Charles Navarro

This is just a recommendation, not a requirement, with exception of the recommended oil change service intervals.

996-CAB

TZL996, The value of the LN Engineering retrofit or solution is so you can enjoy your car and not worry every time you drive it. It is more than likely that the warranty will expire before any of us sell the car we spent $$$ to get the job done. To me, the value is in the registration. If I try to sell the car, the buyer can get confirmation the job was done. It is easy to fake a receipt of work, but I can't fake a registration.

yelcab

If you do the work yourself, it is very easy to ...

1. Keep the receipt of the parts you have bought
2. Show pictures of your car with the gearbox out of the car
3. Show pictures of the old bearing removed, new bearing in progress of installation, and completed
4. Produce the actual old bearing with the sale of the car. (I don't keep old parts, they get tossed)
5. Along with records of regular oil changes of the car.

The value of the LNE retrofit is not in the registration, but in the actual work that went into the installation of the bearing which lowered the risk of the car suffering the IMS bearing failure.

TheChunkNorris

Interesting nugget of info about the oil as I use DT40 on your recommendation and use Ceratec in my VW, never thought to use the Ceratec with Liqui-Moly in my 996.

tzl996

Thanks everyone, and Mr. Navarro,

Interesting info. First, I will complete the online registration. I'll ship off the bearing in a ziploc bag this Saturday to LN Engineering with the warranty card and my email. It will be shipped 9 days after the work done, so should be fine within the 30 days. I believe I can pay extra to have my bearing shipped back, but if LN Engineering takes photos that can be available later, I guess I don't need the part back.

Second, I did NOT know about the engine oil recommendations.

I looked back at my manual and it only recommended Synthetic at 0w40 or higher. Porsche should update their website, since they still write Mobil 1.

https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessor...rts/engineoil/

I guess it is a marketing agreement?

However, I checked my last oil change invoice from late April 2023, under "Oil", they wrote 9.2 L of "5W40 Synth / LM 20363 / LM 2012", and under that "Porsche A40".

So it looks like I was mistaken about Mobil 1. It looks like that is Liqui Moly oil, or equivalent. Would that be adequate or should I ask them to change to DT40 oil going forward?

Last spring, for various reasons, I've been driving the 911 a lot more. Typically I put in 1500-3000 miles/year, but since spring I'm averaging about 200-240 miles/week, 90% highway, so I will reach the 5000 miles in about 5-6 months, at least through winter. As I have only summer tires, I'll probably not drive much between Jan-Feb, but resume in March.

In any case, I learned a couple of new things this weekend thanks to you guys!

Louie.

4Driver4

I didn’t register the bearing I put in my 997. I wanted to keep the original bearing.

tzl996

Wow 4Driver4, what an incredible collection of cars! I loved the Scirocco's of old. I didn't know what the Honda Acty was, had to look it up.

Louie.

4Driver4

Thanks. I'm sort of a low budget collector...with the exception of the 993. ;-)

riceball

My indy did the work. Put the sticker on the inside door jam on drivers side with all the other stickers.

He told me to register online at home. He said that at least I have the record of it being done in case it was sold. Also if i needed warranty or anything.

I'm guessing LN will have record of the shop that bought it along with who installed their product in case they need to pull info.