997 Shifter upgrade is all you need vs. all the alternatives for street use
#1
997 Shifter upgrade is all you need vs. all the alternatives for street use
Just got a 2000 C2 with only 32k miles. Shifting felt horrible as if problems with the cables or linkage. Had a shop check the cable ends at tranny & change the fluid which was probably original which helped some. Still didn't feel right.
A few years ago I had a '99 C4 with only 32k miles as well and shifting was fine, didn't feel like it needed upgrading even though it was less precise than I would have preferred.
Had a 997 C2 with 40k miles prior to that and shifting was also fine, didn't feel the need to upgrade it.
My points of reference for great shift feel are a 981 GT4 I spent a day in (unbelievably good shift feel), the S2000 of course, and Miatas (owned NA & ND1, driven NC extensively)
After spending tons of time searching forums and learning about my options, I'm so glad I just put in the regular 997 shifter (found a new one on ebay).
Shift action is now positive, precise, and much more mechanical feeling. Feels more mechanical and "clicky" vs my previous 997 (maybe after 40k that one was getting a bit worn which seems odd).
This fixed all my issues so oddly my stock 32k shifter was worn or out of alignment enough to really detract from the driving experience.
I don't see the need for anything more than a new or low-mileage 997 shifter for normal spirited street driving in my urban area.
I researched and considered:
Numeric (ruled out as too expensive, too extreme, too mechanical feeling -- the few videos online make it seem like there's tons of mechanical noise when shifting which I'm not a fan of - maybe a bit too "Fast & Furious" for me? I would really need to try one before buying.
--997 SSK - ruled out as many people say the effort is annoyingly high for normal driving
--Ben's Auto Design (BAD) / ebay / BAM shifter inserts - ruled out quickly - many people say they like them but many more say they don't. Labor-intensive to install, fiddly, all the various mods/hacks needed to make these better are off-putting when new OEM is only $325.
--997.2 GT3 shifter - very highly rated by many -- about $625 new from several online places, was very tempted to buy this
--997 OEM unit - $325 new from various vendors / $150-225 used on ebay -- the most popular option and highly rated by all
--997 with added Phenix bushings ($80) - most appealing option but then I read a poster saying pointless if your 997 shifter is new or almost new. This proved to be true with my new 997 unit as I don't feel the need for them at all.
--997 with added Function First Shift Right kit ($325) - very highly rated but questionable value vs new 997.2 GT3 when adding in the cost of the 997 shifter for $150-325 (and a fair amount of labor to install in OEM unit vs just buying new GT3 unit), seemed like overkill for street use
If you have or buy a used 997 shifter with 50k+ miles on it then adding the Phenix bushings would probably help a lot but for my new one I don't feel the need at all. Maybe it's smart to just install them from the start even with a new one for when it eventually wears?
Again, I can't overstate how much better the 997 unit feels - shifts are much more mechanical (but not excessively so), positive and solid. Makes me really enjoy shifting now when before I hated it.
My recommendation is to buy a new 997 unit for $325 and be done with it. Don't spent countless hours considering all the other options when they aren't really necessary or are possibly overkill for street use.
Many of the used ones on ebay looked well-worn and would probably need the Phenix bushings which would be a fine option if you don't mind installing them, but new is only a bit more money.
Also, when removing the center console I broke the alarm sensor for the lockable armrest cubby - none of the videos I watched mentioned unhooking the wire connection so be aware it's there. Now I need to cut the wires for it and tape them together to close the circuit.
A few years ago I had a '99 C4 with only 32k miles as well and shifting was fine, didn't feel like it needed upgrading even though it was less precise than I would have preferred.
Had a 997 C2 with 40k miles prior to that and shifting was also fine, didn't feel the need to upgrade it.
My points of reference for great shift feel are a 981 GT4 I spent a day in (unbelievably good shift feel), the S2000 of course, and Miatas (owned NA & ND1, driven NC extensively)
After spending tons of time searching forums and learning about my options, I'm so glad I just put in the regular 997 shifter (found a new one on ebay).
Shift action is now positive, precise, and much more mechanical feeling. Feels more mechanical and "clicky" vs my previous 997 (maybe after 40k that one was getting a bit worn which seems odd).
This fixed all my issues so oddly my stock 32k shifter was worn or out of alignment enough to really detract from the driving experience.
I don't see the need for anything more than a new or low-mileage 997 shifter for normal spirited street driving in my urban area.
I researched and considered:
Numeric (ruled out as too expensive, too extreme, too mechanical feeling -- the few videos online make it seem like there's tons of mechanical noise when shifting which I'm not a fan of - maybe a bit too "Fast & Furious" for me? I would really need to try one before buying.
--997 SSK - ruled out as many people say the effort is annoyingly high for normal driving
--Ben's Auto Design (BAD) / ebay / BAM shifter inserts - ruled out quickly - many people say they like them but many more say they don't. Labor-intensive to install, fiddly, all the various mods/hacks needed to make these better are off-putting when new OEM is only $325.
--997.2 GT3 shifter - very highly rated by many -- about $625 new from several online places, was very tempted to buy this
--997 OEM unit - $325 new from various vendors / $150-225 used on ebay -- the most popular option and highly rated by all
--997 with added Phenix bushings ($80) - most appealing option but then I read a poster saying pointless if your 997 shifter is new or almost new. This proved to be true with my new 997 unit as I don't feel the need for them at all.
--997 with added Function First Shift Right kit ($325) - very highly rated but questionable value vs new 997.2 GT3 when adding in the cost of the 997 shifter for $150-325 (and a fair amount of labor to install in OEM unit vs just buying new GT3 unit), seemed like overkill for street use
If you have or buy a used 997 shifter with 50k+ miles on it then adding the Phenix bushings would probably help a lot but for my new one I don't feel the need at all. Maybe it's smart to just install them from the start even with a new one for when it eventually wears?
Again, I can't overstate how much better the 997 unit feels - shifts are much more mechanical (but not excessively so), positive and solid. Makes me really enjoy shifting now when before I hated it.
My recommendation is to buy a new 997 unit for $325 and be done with it. Don't spent countless hours considering all the other options when they aren't really necessary or are possibly overkill for street use.
Many of the used ones on ebay looked well-worn and would probably need the Phenix bushings which would be a fine option if you don't mind installing them, but new is only a bit more money.
Also, when removing the center console I broke the alarm sensor for the lockable armrest cubby - none of the videos I watched mentioned unhooking the wire connection so be aware it's there. Now I need to cut the wires for it and tape them together to close the circuit.
The following 3 users liked this post by jeffsnavely:
The following users liked this post:
GC996 (06-11-2023)
#4
The OP has rather missed the point of the various upgrades, not only are they more precise, they’re also engineered to remain precise, whereas the stock 996/997 unit will start to deteriorate (albeit gradually) from day one.
I’ve torn down a few 996/997 shift assemblies now, including the much vaunted 997.2 GT3 “metal bush” version, they all rely on large tolerances to function such is the poor quality of the components, and to a lesser extent, the design.
Contrary to what most people think, the 997.2 GT3/RS version has metal bushing housings, but within those housings remain the stock nylon/plastic bushes ... The steel housings do remove some compliance, but I bought a secondhand unit which had been fitted in two cars previously to my ownership, and that has some obvious wear, albeit nothing like as much as the equivalent stock 996/997 shift assembly.
The stock 997 shifter is a very good upgrade for a 996 with a tired shifter, it removes 20 + years of wear and reduces the shift throw by at least 10%, all of which makes the 996 shift feel very snickety compared to a worn stock 996 shift assembly. But it will wear, whereas the Phoenix, Function First options, won’t.
I’d say the Phoenix upgrade is the bare minimum, and the FF option the best without going to the likes and expense of the Numeric item.
The following 3 users liked this post by Atgani:
#5
The OP has rather missed the point of the various upgrades, not only are they more precise, they’re also engineered to remain precise, whereas the stock 996/997 unit will start to deteriorate (albeit gradually) from day one.
I’ve torn down a few 996/997 shift assemblies now, including the much vaunted 997.2 GT3 “metal bush” version, they all rely on large tolerances to function such is the poor quality of the components, and to a lesser extent, the design.
Contrary to what most people think, the 997.2 GT3/RS version has metal bushing housings, but within those housings remain the stock nylon/plastic bushes ... The steel housings do remove some compliance, but I bought a secondhand unit which had been fitted in two cars previously to my ownership, and that has some obvious wear, albeit nothing like as much as the equivalent stock 996/997 shift assembly.
The stock 997 shifter is a very good upgrade for a 996 with a tired shifter, it removes 20 + years of wear and reduces the shift throw by at least 10%, all of which makes the 996 shift feel very snickety compared to a worn stock 996 shift assembly. But it will wear, whereas the Phoenix, Function First options, won’t.
I’d say the Phoenix upgrade is the bare minimum, and the FF option the best without going to the likes and expense of the Numeric item.
I’ve torn down a few 996/997 shift assemblies now, including the much vaunted 997.2 GT3 “metal bush” version, they all rely on large tolerances to function such is the poor quality of the components, and to a lesser extent, the design.
Contrary to what most people think, the 997.2 GT3/RS version has metal bushing housings, but within those housings remain the stock nylon/plastic bushes ... The steel housings do remove some compliance, but I bought a secondhand unit which had been fitted in two cars previously to my ownership, and that has some obvious wear, albeit nothing like as much as the equivalent stock 996/997 shift assembly.
The stock 997 shifter is a very good upgrade for a 996 with a tired shifter, it removes 20 + years of wear and reduces the shift throw by at least 10%, all of which makes the 996 shift feel very snickety compared to a worn stock 996 shift assembly. But it will wear, whereas the Phoenix, Function First options, won’t.
I’d say the Phoenix upgrade is the bare minimum, and the FF option the best without going to the likes and expense of the Numeric item.
#6
You guys are bringing up some great points on durability.
From a comparative "feel" perspective, would any of you have real world experience and comments on the difference in feel between the oem 996 shifter and oem 997 shifter; as well as the difference in feel between the 997 shifter and the 997 shifter with Function first upgrade?
From a comparative "feel" perspective, would any of you have real world experience and comments on the difference in feel between the oem 996 shifter and oem 997 shifter; as well as the difference in feel between the 997 shifter and the 997 shifter with Function first upgrade?
Last edited by GC996; 06-11-2023 at 09:51 AM.
#7
You guys are bringing up some great points on durability.
From a comparative "feel" perspective, would any of you have real world experience and comments on the difference in feel between the oem 996 shifter and oem 997 shifter; as well as the difference in feel between the 997 shifter and the 997 shifter with Function first upgrade?
From a comparative "feel" perspective, would any of you have real world experience and comments on the difference in feel between the oem 996 shifter and oem 997 shifter; as well as the difference in feel between the 997 shifter and the 997 shifter with Function first upgrade?
I’ve fitted stock 997 shifters to four 996’s, three GT3’s, and one C2 (my current car) two of the GT3’s had short shift kits fitted to them by previous owners (Schnell and B&M items) both made the cars all but undrivable, so fitting a stock 997 shift to them felt like manna from heaven !!
The transmission was no longer baulky and recalcitrant (and almost impossible to select ANY gear when cold) and instead it was light, easy, accurate, and most importantly completely intuitive, rather than a guessing game/lottery when trying to downshift quickly whilst heeling and toeing.
Both short shifters in the GT3’s were removed and replaced with stock 997 items within 72 hours of purchasing the cars ... They were that bad.
In fact sob bad were they, I even asked the one owner why he’d fitted it as it was so unpleasant to use. His answer ?
”It makes the car feel more “sporty”...
My Mk 2 2001 C2 996 had done just over 60k miles when I bought it last October, and the shift was fine when it was hot, but a bit baulky when stone cold. I have a very trick German shifter (a beautifully machined billet item) that I wanted to fit, but I was wary of inflicting further wear/damage on the synchros because it reduces the throw by 22% (it was fitted to a previous Mk 1 996 GT3 I owned and was an amazing shifter to use (and made the B&M and Schnell items look like a sick joke) but despite my concerns, I went ahead and fitted it to trial it.
It was baulky when cold, but after 10–15 minutes driving, it became far more slick, but it wasn’t ideal, primarily because the shift was no longer intuitive, and it was both heavier and slightly more baulky than I felt comfortable with.
I’ve since removed it from the car and intend to manufacturer it with a throw reduction of 12-14%, rather than 22%.
In the meantime I’ve bought a 997.2 GT3/RS shifter which is good, but as I mentioned in my previous post, it’s effectively a third hand item and has some play.
I’ve also bought a brand new stock 997 shift assembly to test in the car, and having done so (when I get around to it) I intend to base the German billet shift design I’m proposing to manufacture, around the stock 997 shift geometry/lever ratios, but with the benefit of it being all alloy/steel and precision machined from billet.
But to answer you question ... Yes I have swapped from a stock 20 year old 996 shifter to a new stock 997 shifter, and the difference was very noticeable, and all in good ways.
The 997 item automatically removed 20 years of wear induced slop, plus it is a shorter throw, some say 15%, than 996 unit. Whatever the reduction is, it’s a perfect balance between precision, weight and accuracy and feels totally “factory” and not at all aftermarket, it’s as if that’s what the car should have been specified with from new. Which I think probably sums it up best.
There are quite literally no downsides whatsoever to fitting the 997 item to a 996.
Trending Topics
#8
The issue with making comparisons between the stock (more often than not worn and tired) 996 and a new stock 997 shifter is that a bit like changing from a three year old set of tires that are only just legal, and fitting new items, is the new tyres will always feel subjectively better !!
I’ve fitted stock 997 shifters to four 996’s, three GT3’s, and one C2 (my current car) two of the GT3’s had short shift kits fitted to them by previous owners (Schnell and B&M items) both made the cars all but undrivable, so fitting a stock 997 shift to them felt like manna from heaven !!
The transmission was no longer baulky and recalcitrant (and almost impossible to select ANY gear when cold) and instead it was light, easy, accurate, and most importantly completely intuitive, rather than a guessing game/lottery when trying to downshift quickly whilst heeling and toeing.
Both short shifters in the GT3’s were removed and replaced with stock 997 items within 72 hours of purchasing the cars ... They were that bad.
In fact sob bad were they, I even asked the one owner why he’d fitted it as it was so unpleasant to use. His answer ?
”It makes the car feel more “sporty”...
My Mk 2 2001 C2 996 had done just over 60k miles when I bought it last October, and the shift was fine when it was hot, but a bit baulky when stone cold. I have a very trick German shifter (a beautifully machined billet item) that I wanted to fit, but I was wary of inflicting further wear/damage on the synchros because it reduces the throw by 22% (it was fitted to a previous Mk 1 996 GT3 I owned and was an amazing shifter to use (and made the B&M and Schnell items look like a sick joke) but despite my concerns, I went ahead and fitted it to trial it.
It was baulky when cold, but after 10–15 minutes driving, it became far more slick, but it wasn’t ideal, primarily because the shift was no longer intuitive, and it was both heavier and slightly more baulky than I felt comfortable with.
I’ve since removed it from the car and intend to manufacturer it with a throw reduction of 12-14%, rather than 22%.
In the meantime I’ve bought a 997.2 GT3/RS shifter which is good, but as I mentioned in my previous post, it’s effectively a third hand item and has some play.
I’ve also bought a brand new stock 997 shift assembly to test in the car, and having done so (when I get around to it) I intend to base the German billet shift design I’m proposing to manufacture, around the stock 997 shift geometry/lever ratios, but with the benefit of it being all alloy/steel and precision machined from billet.
But to answer you question ... Yes I have swapped from a stock 20 year old 996 shifter to a new stock 997 shifter, and the difference was very noticeable, and all in good ways.
The 997 item automatically removed 20 years of wear induced slop, plus it is a shorter throw, some say 15%, than 996 unit. Whatever the reduction is, it’s a perfect balance between precision, weight and accuracy and feels totally “factory” and not at all aftermarket, it’s as if that’s what the car should have been specified with from new. Which I think probably sums it up best.
There are quite literally no downsides whatsoever to fitting the 997 item to a 996.
I’ve fitted stock 997 shifters to four 996’s, three GT3’s, and one C2 (my current car) two of the GT3’s had short shift kits fitted to them by previous owners (Schnell and B&M items) both made the cars all but undrivable, so fitting a stock 997 shift to them felt like manna from heaven !!
The transmission was no longer baulky and recalcitrant (and almost impossible to select ANY gear when cold) and instead it was light, easy, accurate, and most importantly completely intuitive, rather than a guessing game/lottery when trying to downshift quickly whilst heeling and toeing.
Both short shifters in the GT3’s were removed and replaced with stock 997 items within 72 hours of purchasing the cars ... They were that bad.
In fact sob bad were they, I even asked the one owner why he’d fitted it as it was so unpleasant to use. His answer ?
”It makes the car feel more “sporty”...
My Mk 2 2001 C2 996 had done just over 60k miles when I bought it last October, and the shift was fine when it was hot, but a bit baulky when stone cold. I have a very trick German shifter (a beautifully machined billet item) that I wanted to fit, but I was wary of inflicting further wear/damage on the synchros because it reduces the throw by 22% (it was fitted to a previous Mk 1 996 GT3 I owned and was an amazing shifter to use (and made the B&M and Schnell items look like a sick joke) but despite my concerns, I went ahead and fitted it to trial it.
It was baulky when cold, but after 10–15 minutes driving, it became far more slick, but it wasn’t ideal, primarily because the shift was no longer intuitive, and it was both heavier and slightly more baulky than I felt comfortable with.
I’ve since removed it from the car and intend to manufacturer it with a throw reduction of 12-14%, rather than 22%.
In the meantime I’ve bought a 997.2 GT3/RS shifter which is good, but as I mentioned in my previous post, it’s effectively a third hand item and has some play.
I’ve also bought a brand new stock 997 shift assembly to test in the car, and having done so (when I get around to it) I intend to base the German billet shift design I’m proposing to manufacture, around the stock 997 shift geometry/lever ratios, but with the benefit of it being all alloy/steel and precision machined from billet.
But to answer you question ... Yes I have swapped from a stock 20 year old 996 shifter to a new stock 997 shifter, and the difference was very noticeable, and all in good ways.
The 997 item automatically removed 20 years of wear induced slop, plus it is a shorter throw, some say 15%, than 996 unit. Whatever the reduction is, it’s a perfect balance between precision, weight and accuracy and feels totally “factory” and not at all aftermarket, it’s as if that’s what the car should have been specified with from new. Which I think probably sums it up best.
There are quite literally no downsides whatsoever to fitting the 997 item to a 996.
Even though I have owned my 996.2 for 21 years and have tracked it for 15 years, I never replaced the 996 shifter because I never had a problem with it. It is pretty easy to develop a shift rythym on the track with the 996 shifter. But yeah, its getting yo be a bit sloppy in feel and about time to replace. Never been a fan of a short, notchy shift, but I do like what you are describing with the 997/FF combo. Thanks.
#9
Perfect timing on seeing this!... I have a stock 997 shifter and was looking at those plastic bushings and while they DO feel and appear tight, my mind wondered how those would feel if they were replaced with longer lasting units.
Im tempted to pick up a set of the phenix bushings
Im tempted to pick up a set of the phenix bushings