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Old 01-31-2023 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by b3freak
Please explain what you can offer to back this claim up. Seems to me, even the best engine oil starts to break down and loose viscosity the minute you start the car.

You add... Thermal breakdown, fuel intrusion, hydrocarbons, wear metal containments, additive wear package deterioration, viscosity loss, oxidation, acid, etc. and it's more reason IMHO to use short change intervals.
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???

Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Old 01-31-2023 | 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by brontosaurus
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???

Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
So that I clearly understand you. You're speaking about if oil sits in a sump for long periods of time (e.g. storage) but is never used in operation? Is that what you're saying?

Please clarify minus the religion type insults.
Old 01-31-2023 | 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by brontosaurus
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???

Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
My car is parked for 6 months. Parked means, it doesn't roll, it doesn't move, it doesn't get started. Yes, I've changed the oil in October, drove around the block to get it to operating temp. Parked it. Next start was April, after I dumped the oil that had just a few miles on it.

This year, I did not change the oil in the fall. Oil has 1500 miles on it. I will dump the oil before first season start with fresh oil/filter.

With a car that is parked for 6 months, I can't see why the oil needs to be changed every 6 months, especially with the limited mileage I actually do.
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Old 01-31-2023 | 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by brontosaurus
Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle?
Nope, especially if it in the original sealed oil container. I don't worry about it "expiring" because I know it will be used within 6-12 months. But the thread was talking about drain intervals with in operation use of oil.

Originally Posted by brontosaurus
Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle?
Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.

Now if you pour fresh oil directly in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologists will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can use a non-translucent jar instead? ha!











Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 01-31-2023 at 05:14 PM.
Old 01-31-2023 | 05:07 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by b3freak
Nope, especially if it in the original sealed oil container. I don't worry about it "expiring" because I know it will be used within 6-12 months. But the thread was talking about drain intervals with in operation use of oil.



Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.

Now if you talk fresh oil and fill it full in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologist will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can put in a non-translucent jar? ha!
I will add that as long as the bottle of oil hasn't been opened and is sealed, it will be good for several years. The only thing that can happen over time is that the additives can fall out of suspension if it sits longer than 3 years. Just be sure to give the bottle a good shake before using it :-)
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Old 01-31-2023 | 05:09 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by steam_mill
My car is parked for 6 months. Parked means, it doesn't roll, it doesn't move, it doesn't get started. Yes, I've changed the oil in October, drove around the block to get it to operating temp. Parked it. Next start was April, after I dumped the oil that had just a few miles on it.

This year, I did not change the oil in the fall. Oil has 1500 miles on it. I will dump the oil before first season start with fresh oil/filter.

With a car that is parked for 6 months, I can't see why the oil needs to be changed every 6 months, especially with the limited mileage I actually do.
If you don't drive the car in the winter, it's always best to change the oil before the car goes into storage. Best to store it with clean oil. Don't forget to add a fuel stabilizer like Driven's Defender products to that tank of gas and be sure to run the car so that the fuel with additives touches all fuel system components.
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Old 01-31-2023 | 11:53 PM
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I was wondering how long it would take for the personal insults to start. Honestly, it took longer than I thought.
Old 02-01-2023 | 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by brontosaurus
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???

Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
So interestingly enough I just sent off a sample in mid December, it was drained into a 1qt which was shaken and sampled pulled then sent. Well the sample got lost in the mail, never showed up. Fortunately I had about 1/2 qt left sitting in my garage for about a month after the original sample. I pulled another sample from that, making sure to shake the bottle well before sampling. Results indicated a bit of fuel, nothing super alarming and viscosity was still good. Well earlier this week that sample that had gotten lost showed up. They decided to run that sample zero indication of fuel. I am not suggesting the difference is any indication at all that the resampled oil had gone “bad”, but the “fresh used oil” sampled right away had no indication of fuel, while the same oil allowed to sit for a month in a 1qt did. No real explanation, but it is certainly interesting they weren’t the same.


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Old 02-01-2023 | 10:29 AM
  #69  
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Default Oil is cheap, engine's are not.

Oil is cheap, engine's are not.
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Old 02-01-2023 | 10:45 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by fireman
Oil is cheap, engine's are not.
^^^Amen brother.
Old 02-01-2023 | 10:50 AM
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Agreed and I am by no means suggesting oil needs replaced after 1 month of sitting, what I am suggesting is the notion that oil sitting in a motor doesn’t change isn’t correct it does. Now my guess is if ran for a bit with some heat and mixing, the fuel either burns off or goes back into the mix, but how long does this take and what overall impact on the properties of the oil is the question.
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Old 02-01-2023 | 11:12 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by bgoetz
Agreed and I am by no means suggesting oil needs replaced after 1 month of sitting, what I am suggesting is the notion that oil sitting in a motor doesn’t change isn’t correct it does. Now my guess is if ran for a bit with some heat and mixing, the fuel either burns off or goes back into the mix, but how long does this take and what overall impact on the properties of the oil is the question.
@bgoetz Absolutely agree with you. My "Amen Brother" was just acknowledging the great comment by Fireman on oil changes.

Don't know why folks are reluctant to change the oil. Lubrication is everything. Anything that creates sub-optimal lubrication should be identified and mitigated if you want extended engine life.

Moisture, fuel and various contaminants don't develop in a sealed oil bottle. But they do develop once you pour the oil from the bottle into the engine. Doesn't help if you drive the car for 10 min to and from the grocery store and never get it up to temp to burn off the moisture.

Sure doesn't help either if you have bad fuel injectors and you are leaking fuel diluting the lubrication benefits of good oil. Nor does it help if you refuse to refresh your MAF, coils and plugs.

At the very least, more frequent oil changes can help mitigate the negative effects of not properly driving the car and not running properly functioning parts.

Bore scoring doesn't happen because the bores came scored from the factory. It develops over time from bad service.
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Old 02-01-2023 | 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GC996
@bgoetz Absolutely agree with you. My "Amen Brother" was just acknowledging the great comment by Fireman on oil changes.

Don't know why folks are reluctant to change the oil. Lubrication is everything. Anything that creates sub-optimal lubrication should be identified and mitigated if you want extended engine life.

Moisture, fuel and various contaminants don't develop in a sealed oil bottle. But they do develop once you pour the oil from the bottle into the engine. Doesn't help if you drive the car for 10 min to and from the grocery store and never get it up to temp to burn off the moisture.

Sure doesn't help either if you have bad fuel injectors and you are leaking fuel diluting the lubrication benefits of good oil. Nor does it help if you refuse to refresh your MAF, coils and plugs.

At the very least, more frequent oil changes can help mitigate the negative effects of not properly driving the car and not running properly functioning parts.

Bore scoring doesn't happen because the bores came scored from the factory. It develops over time from bad service.
Once people finally learn that the oil has a role even when the engine isn't operating, they will finally understand why time makes an impact on the service life of oil. This is why some oils are better storage oils than others.
People who race methanol powered vehicles understand this, if the oil isn't changed after every event (and sometimes after every pass) the engine internals will start to rust. Newbies in the world of alcohol powered engines usually make this mistake just once.
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Old 02-01-2023 | 04:29 PM
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Not to totally derail the thread into one on oil, to dive in a little bit deeper on this, combustion byproducts combine with moisture in the crankcase to form acids. That's why oil needs to be changed more often, especially when operated in cold climates or for short times. Extended operation in cold start or engines with bad injectors with high fuel dilution further exacerbate this issue.

As mentioned above, some oils are better for storage than others. For example, a true race oil doesn't have the detergents, dispersants, and corrosion inhibitors a street oil has, so that's why you have to change it after every event.
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Old 02-02-2023 | 01:26 AM
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I've opened up engines where the PH was full acid from extremely long storage(Like 10 + years) was high enough to burn when you got it on your skin.
This was a large gas tractor with Delo 400 in it..

A simple PH strip will show the difference between new and as it ages... FWIW..
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