FSI/RND/LN Engine Durability/Longevity?
#61
Please explain what you can offer to back this claim up. Seems to me, even the best engine oil starts to break down and loose viscosity the minute you start the car.
You add... Thermal breakdown, fuel intrusion, hydrocarbons, wear metal containments, additive wear package deterioration, viscosity loss, oxidation, acid, etc. and it's more reason IMHO to use short change intervals.
You add... Thermal breakdown, fuel intrusion, hydrocarbons, wear metal containments, additive wear package deterioration, viscosity loss, oxidation, acid, etc. and it's more reason IMHO to use short change intervals.
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
#62
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Please clarify minus the religion type insults.
#63
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
This year, I did not change the oil in the fall. Oil has 1500 miles on it. I will dump the oil before first season start with fresh oil/filter.
With a car that is parked for 6 months, I can't see why the oil needs to be changed every 6 months, especially with the limited mileage I actually do.
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mjb2448 (02-01-2023)
#64
Nope, especially if it in the original sealed oil container. I don't worry about it "expiring" because I know it will be used within 6-12 months. But the thread was talking about drain intervals with in operation use of oil.
Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.
Now if you pour fresh oil directly in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologists will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can use a non-translucent jar instead? ha!
Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.
Now if you pour fresh oil directly in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologists will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can use a non-translucent jar instead? ha!
Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 01-31-2023 at 05:14 PM.
#65
Nope, especially if it in the original sealed oil container. I don't worry about it "expiring" because I know it will be used within 6-12 months. But the thread was talking about drain intervals with in operation use of oil.
Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.
Now if you talk fresh oil and fill it full in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologist will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can put in a non-translucent jar? ha!
Talk to any Tribiologist, once oil is exposed to air and moisture, it will begin a chemical breakdown process even if it's not in an operating engine. I totally disagree with your statement saying it will never breakdown over years.
Now if you talk fresh oil and fill it full in a clean glass bottle and seal it, then it will theoretically last a long time because it's not exposed to the elements. But if it's clear glass, tribologist will argue that UV light will have an affect on the oil. Guess you can put in a non-translucent jar? ha!
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#66
My car is parked for 6 months. Parked means, it doesn't roll, it doesn't move, it doesn't get started. Yes, I've changed the oil in October, drove around the block to get it to operating temp. Parked it. Next start was April, after I dumped the oil that had just a few miles on it.
This year, I did not change the oil in the fall. Oil has 1500 miles on it. I will dump the oil before first season start with fresh oil/filter.
With a car that is parked for 6 months, I can't see why the oil needs to be changed every 6 months, especially with the limited mileage I actually do.
This year, I did not change the oil in the fall. Oil has 1500 miles on it. I will dump the oil before first season start with fresh oil/filter.
With a car that is parked for 6 months, I can't see why the oil needs to be changed every 6 months, especially with the limited mileage I actually do.
The following 2 users liked this post by Charles Navarro:
mjb2448 (02-01-2023),
TheChunkNorris (02-01-2023)
#68
uh oh, hydrocarbons? IN MY OIL???
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Countless UOAs show that oil sitting in a sump does not degrade measurably. No real change in cp/TAN/TBN. I never said anything about behavior that encourages contamination. Do you worry about oil that sits in a bottle? Why should you worry about it sitting in a metal bottle? The science does not agree with the Church of Raby, sorry.
Last edited by bgoetz; 02-01-2023 at 09:05 AM.
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#71
Agreed and I am by no means suggesting oil needs replaced after 1 month of sitting, what I am suggesting is the notion that oil sitting in a motor doesn’t change isn’t correct it does. Now my guess is if ran for a bit with some heat and mixing, the fuel either burns off or goes back into the mix, but how long does this take and what overall impact on the properties of the oil is the question.
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GC996 (02-05-2023)
#72
Agreed and I am by no means suggesting oil needs replaced after 1 month of sitting, what I am suggesting is the notion that oil sitting in a motor doesn’t change isn’t correct it does. Now my guess is if ran for a bit with some heat and mixing, the fuel either burns off or goes back into the mix, but how long does this take and what overall impact on the properties of the oil is the question.
Don't know why folks are reluctant to change the oil. Lubrication is everything. Anything that creates sub-optimal lubrication should be identified and mitigated if you want extended engine life.
Moisture, fuel and various contaminants don't develop in a sealed oil bottle. But they do develop once you pour the oil from the bottle into the engine. Doesn't help if you drive the car for 10 min to and from the grocery store and never get it up to temp to burn off the moisture.
Sure doesn't help either if you have bad fuel injectors and you are leaking fuel diluting the lubrication benefits of good oil. Nor does it help if you refuse to refresh your MAF, coils and plugs.
At the very least, more frequent oil changes can help mitigate the negative effects of not properly driving the car and not running properly functioning parts.
Bore scoring doesn't happen because the bores came scored from the factory. It develops over time from bad service.
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#73
@bgoetz Absolutely agree with you. My "Amen Brother" was just acknowledging the great comment by Fireman on oil changes.
Don't know why folks are reluctant to change the oil. Lubrication is everything. Anything that creates sub-optimal lubrication should be identified and mitigated if you want extended engine life.
Moisture, fuel and various contaminants don't develop in a sealed oil bottle. But they do develop once you pour the oil from the bottle into the engine. Doesn't help if you drive the car for 10 min to and from the grocery store and never get it up to temp to burn off the moisture.
Sure doesn't help either if you have bad fuel injectors and you are leaking fuel diluting the lubrication benefits of good oil. Nor does it help if you refuse to refresh your MAF, coils and plugs.
At the very least, more frequent oil changes can help mitigate the negative effects of not properly driving the car and not running properly functioning parts.
Bore scoring doesn't happen because the bores came scored from the factory. It develops over time from bad service.
Don't know why folks are reluctant to change the oil. Lubrication is everything. Anything that creates sub-optimal lubrication should be identified and mitigated if you want extended engine life.
Moisture, fuel and various contaminants don't develop in a sealed oil bottle. But they do develop once you pour the oil from the bottle into the engine. Doesn't help if you drive the car for 10 min to and from the grocery store and never get it up to temp to burn off the moisture.
Sure doesn't help either if you have bad fuel injectors and you are leaking fuel diluting the lubrication benefits of good oil. Nor does it help if you refuse to refresh your MAF, coils and plugs.
At the very least, more frequent oil changes can help mitigate the negative effects of not properly driving the car and not running properly functioning parts.
Bore scoring doesn't happen because the bores came scored from the factory. It develops over time from bad service.
People who race methanol powered vehicles understand this, if the oil isn't changed after every event (and sometimes after every pass) the engine internals will start to rust. Newbies in the world of alcohol powered engines usually make this mistake just once.
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TexSquirrel (02-01-2023)
#74
Not to totally derail the thread into one on oil, to dive in a little bit deeper on this, combustion byproducts combine with moisture in the crankcase to form acids. That's why oil needs to be changed more often, especially when operated in cold climates or for short times. Extended operation in cold start or engines with bad injectors with high fuel dilution further exacerbate this issue.
As mentioned above, some oils are better for storage than others. For example, a true race oil doesn't have the detergents, dispersants, and corrosion inhibitors a street oil has, so that's why you have to change it after every event.
As mentioned above, some oils are better for storage than others. For example, a true race oil doesn't have the detergents, dispersants, and corrosion inhibitors a street oil has, so that's why you have to change it after every event.
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#75
I've opened up engines where the PH was full acid from extremely long storage(Like 10 + years) was high enough to burn when you got it on your skin.
This was a large gas tractor with Delo 400 in it..
A simple PH strip will show the difference between new and as it ages... FWIW..
This was a large gas tractor with Delo 400 in it..
A simple PH strip will show the difference between new and as it ages... FWIW..
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wdb (02-02-2023)