Do These Cylinder Walls Look Normal?
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Joined: Jun 2021
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From: Slovenia, EU
Hi Jag, I'm following this thread with a close interest. Have you had any more interactions with the engine builder? I am interested to know who it is at this point - I think that would be fair enough given the runaround you've been given. Hope you've had some luck with the lawyer.
Final update: I'm pretty much screwed. I've decided against fighting them in court. I'm taking this as an expensive lesson. I'm now living in Europe and the car was sold as a project to a kid in California.
I posted a much more in-depth account in the form of a warning to others here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19111764
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Momence, IL
The engine builder was MB Motorsports.
Final update: I'm pretty much screwed. I've decided against fighting them in court. I'm taking this as an expensive lesson. I'm now living in Europe and the car was sold as a project to a kid in California.
I posted a much more in-depth account in the form of a warning to others here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19111764
Final update: I'm pretty much screwed. I've decided against fighting them in court. I'm taking this as an expensive lesson. I'm now living in Europe and the car was sold as a project to a kid in California.
I posted a much more in-depth account in the form of a warning to others here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19111764
FWIW, MB Motorsports was banned from Rennlist quite a few years ago.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2021
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Happy holidays Charles and yelcab! I have a question for you both, please correct me if my thought process is not right.
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Bay Area on the Peninsula
Happy holidays Charles and yelcab! I have a question for you both, please correct me if my thought process is not right.
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
And you would not see it if scoping from the bottom of the engine, but it is a moot point because the oil intermix would give it away without the need to stick a scope up its ash.
Burning Brakes
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If you had a crack like that in the cylinder, the car is un-drivable because it would misfire, spew out white smoke via the back smelling of coolant, cappuccino color engine oil, and you would have to stop driving it way before it has a chance to D-chunk the engine. That engine actually had TWO cracked cylinders and the case was sent to Charles of LNE to do a 3.8L nikky job. My neighbor is driving it now and he is quite happy with it.
And you would not see it if scoping from the bottom of the engine, but it is a moot point because the oil intermix would give it away without the need to stick a scope up its ash.
And you would not see it if scoping from the bottom of the engine, but it is a moot point because the oil intermix would give it away without the need to stick a scope up its ash.
If I ever have this issue I would send to Charles as well so good call on that. Thank you for the information and insight.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Momence, IL
Happy holidays Charles and yelcab! I have a question for you both, please correct me if my thought process is not right.
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
Looking at yelcab's photo above for reference, humor me for a second in a hypothetical scenario where a bore has no scoring but does have a structural crack at the top of the cylinder that is serious enough to develop into D-chunk over time. Scoping from the sump even with the piston at TDC would have missed this, no?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2021
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Yes, that makes sense, I was thinking about it more over the weekend and thought the same after giving it more thought and reading yelcab's notes. Thank you Charles and yelcab for the information, very much appreciated.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Momence, IL
Thank you for the reply and for the information you have posted here. I completely agree with everything you said but my initial thought was hypothetically if there were signs of stress before the cracking got anywhere near a chance to actually D-chunk off, and thus before the milky oil/coolant, it seems strictly theoretically that this could be missed in a sump borescope inspection. There is no question the sump is the best singular method to borescope but for engines that can D-chunk (and I thought I saw Charles post a few months ago that he's seeing more of these now) I was wondering if they would actually advise then scoping from the spark plug to check for any structural anomalies at the top of the bore. Seems like you might need to do both, depending on the specific engine, to be the most safe in a PPI.
If I ever have this issue I would send to Charles as well so good call on that. Thank you for the information and insight.
If I ever have this issue I would send to Charles as well so good call on that. Thank you for the information and insight.
That said, it might not be a bad idea to also scope from the spark plug if looking at a 996.
Burning Brakes
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https://lnengineering.com/products/w...e-scoring.html
"Porsche models with Alusil blocks including Panamera, Cayenne, Macan, as well as Boxster, Cayman, and 911s with the 9A1/MA1 engine should also be bore scoped to check for bore scoring, however with these engines inspection through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC is the only option." (underlined emphasis my own)
So much valuable information on your website and so many topics covered it is insane. On the 9A1 obviously scoring is much less of a concern but is still a concern. Why exactly is inspection through the spark plug hole the only option on the 9A1? Obviously the passage must be blocked but do you know specifically how? Since you cannot access through the sump does this mean the bore scope on 9A1 is less conclusive?
Sorry for always asking you so many questions but this is what you get for knowing so much and being smart
"Porsche models with Alusil blocks including Panamera, Cayenne, Macan, as well as Boxster, Cayman, and 911s with the 9A1/MA1 engine should also be bore scoped to check for bore scoring, however with these engines inspection through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC is the only option." (underlined emphasis my own)
So much valuable information on your website and so many topics covered it is insane. On the 9A1 obviously scoring is much less of a concern but is still a concern. Why exactly is inspection through the spark plug hole the only option on the 9A1? Obviously the passage must be blocked but do you know specifically how? Since you cannot access through the sump does this mean the bore scope on 9A1 is less conclusive?
Sorry for always asking you so many questions but this is what you get for knowing so much and being smart
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Momence, IL
https://lnengineering.com/products/w...e-scoring.html
"Porsche models with Alusil blocks including Panamera, Cayenne, Macan, as well as Boxster, Cayman, and 911s with the 9A1/MA1 engine should also be bore scoped to check for bore scoring, however with these engines inspection through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC is the only option." (underlined emphasis my own)
So much valuable information on your website and so many topics covered it is insane. On the 9A1 obviously scoring is much less of a concern but is still a concern. Why exactly is inspection through the spark plug hole the only option on the 9A1? Obviously the passage must be blocked but do you know specifically how? Since you cannot access through the sump does this mean the bore scope on 9A1 is less conclusive?
Sorry for always asking you so many questions but this is what you get for knowing so much and being smart
"Porsche models with Alusil blocks including Panamera, Cayenne, Macan, as well as Boxster, Cayman, and 911s with the 9A1/MA1 engine should also be bore scoped to check for bore scoring, however with these engines inspection through the spark plug hole with the piston at BDC is the only option." (underlined emphasis my own)
So much valuable information on your website and so many topics covered it is insane. On the 9A1 obviously scoring is much less of a concern but is still a concern. Why exactly is inspection through the spark plug hole the only option on the 9A1? Obviously the passage must be blocked but do you know specifically how? Since you cannot access through the sump does this mean the bore scope on 9A1 is less conclusive?
Sorry for always asking you so many questions but this is what you get for knowing so much and being smart
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 957
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The way I describe it, the MA1/9A1 engine has a lasagna bolted onto the bottom. Too much stuff in the way unfortunately. I still think there is value in scoping, but you have to make sure it's with a high res camera to catch even the slightest signs of scoring. Used oil analysis for sure would catch it first.
Last question and I promise I am going to stop bothering you for a while: Do you know the model of the bore scope you are using?I know I have told you before but I really appreciate the information you have given me. You have greatly improved the value of RL with the information you have posted.
Also the more I think about it UOA is almost more important than the bore scope in the sense that it is easier to read the results and not make a mistake. I am concerned than many people, even professionals, are not doing the bore scope procedure correctly and do not know how to read the images.
Last edited by silver_tt; Jan 3, 2024 at 10:23 AM.
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From: Momence, IL
Thank you, love the visual image I am getting from the description haha Last question and I promise I am going to stop bothering you for a while: Do you know the model of the bore scope you are using?
I know I have told you before but I really appreciate the information you have given me. You have greatly improved the value of RL with the information you have posted.
Also the more I think about it UOA is almost more important than the bore scope in the sense that it is easier to read the results and not make a mistake. I am concerned than many people, even professionals, are not doing the bore scope procedure correctly and do not know how to read the images.
Last question and I promise I am going to stop bothering you for a while: Do you know the model of the bore scope you are using?I know I have told you before but I really appreciate the information you have given me. You have greatly improved the value of RL with the information you have posted.
Also the more I think about it UOA is almost more important than the bore scope in the sense that it is easier to read the results and not make a mistake. I am concerned than many people, even professionals, are not doing the bore scope procedure correctly and do not know how to read the images.
This is the one I have:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2021
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THANK YOU. Was going to guess Snap-On but the one you have has more and better features for the price. Fully waterproof, 360 degree 4-way articulation, all the different light settings, that thing is a steal for $400 (actually looks like even less when I login with Prime). Thanks again.
Last edited by silver_tt; Jan 3, 2024 at 11:10 AM.
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From: the perimeter
I know lots of shops use the Snap-On scope.
This is the one I have:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2LK2R5H
This is the one I have:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B2LK2R5H