Whats the difference between the standard interior with plastic and the leather one? Where are the extra bits of leather?

 

, Ghost, we might have done this before... I'll take my driving skills, stock C2 and match them against you and your C4 in the corners.

 

To me, the most obvious one and appreciated one is the full leather dash. It's leather from corner to corner. Much better than the plastic basketball surface of standard. There is also the alcantara leather headliner, but I'm not sure whether this is standard or part of the leather option. ou can look at the full list at the Porsche web site.

Titan, the C2 comes with the standard suspension, whereas the C4S comes standard with the sport suspension. Given equal drivers, the sport suspension will beat the standard suspension anytime on cornering. Add the advantage of AWD, and you'll see the definite cornering prowess of the C4S. If Ghost won't take you up on your challenge, I'll be happy to and bet a six pack beer on it

 

Mike,

This is truly a very personal decision. You can see that the C4S owners are very enthusiastic about their cars. I drove a 996TT and the 40th Anniversary 911 back to back and I chose the latter. I felt lighter and more responsive in tight 2nd gear turns that I love. The turbo was not the car for me so I chose that 40th. You may want to look at this model if you can afford a C4S. It's the fastest NA Porsche model with a back seat! Enjoy your dilemma.

 

Has anyone seen track numbers between a C2 with M030 or x74 and a C4s?
The C4s guys make a lot out of the slightly quicker track times of their cars. I'd do the same if I had decided to go w/the C4s instead of my C2.
You've got think that Porsche would surely want the laptimes to turn out this way. I'm not saying the C4s doesn't have an advantage on some tracks, but the difference is so little as to be insignificant. I have a sneaking suspicion that the c2 sport suspension would tip the balance backwards. Personally, the more significant difference is the feel of the two cars.

For me, I chose the C2 because of:
- feel
- light weight
- I love the narrow body. RUF uses narrow bodies, so does the GT3. IMO, the harder core performance porsches have frequently been narrowbodies.
- price had some bearing (I think the price difference was ~10k in my case).

I'm surprised some people are so turned off by the base interior of the '02+ cars. I actually think the materials are fine. No, they aren't up to the spec of my previous S4, but I bought the car to drive it, not to pet the dashboard

 

Here are some tracktimes for C2s with different suspensions (I've got the 030 out in the garage taunting me. Anybody have Hockenheim numbers for the C4s?

=======================

In a german magazin they had a comparison of a C2 with stock suspension vs. 030 vs. X74 on the track (Hockenheim) and on a 36m (100ft) Slalom:

Hockenheim:
1:16.9 min stock
1:16.2 min 030
1:15.7 min X74

Speed Slalom:
123.0 km/h stock
126.1 km/h 030
127.2 km/h X74

Some comments of this mag on the X74:
' the 911 shows it's full potential...dynamics and fun grow eclatant...steering is on the point and with breathtaking precision...the back of the car grips the road....no body roll...'

===========================

 

The C2 with standard suspension can feel a little floaty at speed compared to the TT or my 964 with a Ruf suspension. Its still very solid though.

 

Palting,
I'd take him up on the challenge, but I think you live closer to him than I do. Perhaps we should start a national C4S challenge series. You on the west coast, me central and Boston Mark on the east coast?

Let me know what kind of beer he buys you...

I should have some new track shots up shortly...

 

As mentioned earlier in this thread (and many times before), with all that comes standard on a C4S, the car starts to look like a bargain, if the C4S floats your boat. Compared to a similarly-optioned C2, that a lot of stuff for a few grand.

I'm curious, with the 40th having X51 ($$), nat grey leather ($$), etc as standard goodies, how does the price of the car compare with ordering these options on a C2 a la carte?

(OK, I admit, I did the math once for the C4S, again when considering X51 on my pre-GT3 C2, and now I'm too lazy to look this stuff up for the 40th.)

Also, does the 40th have 030 suspension?

Regards,
-DT

 

A C2 optioned to the same level as the 40th would cost at least $9,000 more and that does not include the cost of custom paint. The 40th comes in GT silver which is unique to the GT, 40th Anniversary 911, and 50th Anniversary Boxster. You also cannot order the turbo nose on a narrow body 996. The 40th comes with a "sports suspension" according to the Porsche literature. I have asked several well respected Porsche tech editors for specifics on the suspension and I have come up empty. The best that I can come up with is that it probably has the M030 kit except for a different rear shock to make it a little more rear biased in the handling department. At the time of its initial production, the 40th was the only C2 that came with PSE and LSD. It truly is a unique model that combines special appearance features and performance to back it up.

Don't get me wrong. I think that the C4S is a great vehicle. It's just not the right Porsche for my tastes. I am a big fan of AWD as you can see we have an Audi. Given the same hp and weight, an AWD race car has traction advantage on the track. This was very evident during the early Trans Am days when Audi campaigned a tube framed Audi 80 that literally drove circles around their competitors. AWD has been effectively banned from all major racing series except for the SCCA Pro World Challenge series where Audi has won the driver's championship two year in a row. That said, will a C4S be faster on the track? I suspect that it depends on the track and the driver. It's wide body will be a handicap on tracks where high top speeds are important. On the other hand, it's AWD will be an advantage on tight tracks with poor traction. It all doesn't matter on the street. Nice dilemma. You can't lose either way.

 

Thanks for the good info on the 40th. It sounded like a bargain, and it is.
It also does look great in GT Silver (I just looked at one in Snottsdale, along with an Anniv Boxster that had just arrived).

Great taste in cars, Eric.

Cheers,
-DT
'03 C2, 030, lotsa-lthr, rockers, C18s, psm, spseats, etc etc etc...
'02 A6 4.2 sport (wifey's)
'03 Evo VIII (daily driver)
a big diesel p/u
and a lil ol Miata
(yup, 3/5 of my cars are AWD)

 

Palting... I have the full supple Gray leather option and the overhead alcantara leather(didn't know that's what it was called) and it came with the full leather interior, including 3 spoke steering wheel...sweet.

For fun sake... I would agree with you if both cars drove themselves or were driven by the same person, the results would be the same. But, that's not the case in real life racing, now is it.

As in golf, "Iron Bryon" hits every shot then all driver clubs go fairly equal distances too. I've seen many a golfer buy the same technology as I have and I am 20-40yds past them, and I am playing from the tips. :P The car as, in the club are extensions of who's in control and their ability to make it dance under speed control, without fear.

To each their own... But, I am a purist. I believe ball striking then technology makes the player, as does driving skills behind the wheel of technology. And, technology doesn't make the better driver, it's visa versa. When I see AWD dominating the racing world and the choice of the worlds best, then maybe I'll choose to trust in that direction. Until then, I be a purist.

PS, where you located? If you know of a place where we can let it out, and I am not talking about a club track timed event day, I would consider dancing with no speed limits and it's got to be for more then liquid refreshments. Tires cost bucks

 

Ok I went for the 04 40th Anniversary model. For $5k more its has all the goodies and a turbo look nose--so almost a good combo of c2,c4s, and something a little different to the trained eye--I pick herup next week. Thanks everyone for their opinions and help.
Ill post some pics
Mike
40th 911
04 xc90
03 330ci

 

Sorry for the ignorance, but where's Bear Creek? I'm in the south of Cleveland Ohio area. Close by tracks are Mid-Ohio, Neslons Ledges, BeaveRun. I only do DE's and open lapping, 2 years worth so far. I don't bet anything more than a six pack, that way it stays fun and friendly . Unless you've done something to your car or you're a seasoned racer, I prefer Heineken .

Grizzy, the 40th Anniversary edition are nice cars. Color and options? In case you didn't know, you have to post pics once you've taken delivery otherwise nobody will ever answer your posts again .

 

I put the C2 vs C4s question to Hurley Haywood while I was at PDE a couple of weeks ago. His take, for a short race the C2 would be faster but in a long race the C4S would prevail. His reasoning, the C2 would wear out the tires quicker with the RWD bias, while the C4S would preserve the tires longer. Keep in mind we were talking racing conditions not DE with street/R tires, but you could probably extrapolate this to DE.
Another one of the well known instructors told me he would take the C2 as a racer hands down because there is less drag.
Myself, I'm a C2 kind of guy while by brother has a C4S, both great cars.
FWIW my brother was extremely impressed with the capabilities of the C2s at the track, it was his first time on the track (but not the last hehe), but he still prefers the C4S for daily driving (he lives in NY and drives 365 per year).