Low miles or Higher miles?
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Joined: Jun 2021
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From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Low miles or Higher miles?
Long-time Porsche window shopper, but getting more serious about a 996.
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Pro
Joined: Dec 2019
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From: Minnesota
Go for the higher mileage then fully appreciate the eventual 4.0 build!
either way take the prospect to a shop and have them perform a cylinder bore scope from the the bottom via sump plate (opposed to top side via spark plugs). Low and high mileage 996’s should be checked for bore scoring. It’s the most costly issue these days.
either way take the prospect to a shop and have them perform a cylinder bore scope from the the bottom via sump plate (opposed to top side via spark plugs). Low and high mileage 996’s should be checked for bore scoring. It’s the most costly issue these days.
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From: Illinois
Welcome to the awesome world of the 996!
High or low mileage isn't as important as the service history of the car and performing a PPI including checking for bore scoring with a scope.
If the seller has taken good care of the car, he/she will have the service records and you can see how many rear main seals were replaced, intermediate shaft seals, intermediate shaft bearings, AOS, water pump, rubber/plastic parts under the hood, etc, as well as how often the oil was changed and when, as well as what oil was used.
These are critical items that if they haven't been taken care of previously, regardless of the miles, can and will create problems and can lead to the need for a 20-30k engine rebuild sooner than later. A rebuild is inevitable with a 20 year old engine. But many of us would like to keep the engine running in top shape, so we can choose what we want for a rebuild and when; instead of a surprise implosion before we are ready.
I have had my 02 C2 for 19 years and am doing a project every year to replace worn parts with new so I can enjoy it for another 20 years. It's not the cost to buy the car, it's the cost to keep your classic Porsche running in top form.
Hope this helps.
Edit Add: forgot to mention Fuel Injectors, Ignition Coils, and sensors, as other things that you need to look for in the service records as to have been replaced.
High or low mileage isn't as important as the service history of the car and performing a PPI including checking for bore scoring with a scope.
If the seller has taken good care of the car, he/she will have the service records and you can see how many rear main seals were replaced, intermediate shaft seals, intermediate shaft bearings, AOS, water pump, rubber/plastic parts under the hood, etc, as well as how often the oil was changed and when, as well as what oil was used.
These are critical items that if they haven't been taken care of previously, regardless of the miles, can and will create problems and can lead to the need for a 20-30k engine rebuild sooner than later. A rebuild is inevitable with a 20 year old engine. But many of us would like to keep the engine running in top shape, so we can choose what we want for a rebuild and when; instead of a surprise implosion before we are ready.
I have had my 02 C2 for 19 years and am doing a project every year to replace worn parts with new so I can enjoy it for another 20 years. It's not the cost to buy the car, it's the cost to keep your classic Porsche running in top form.
Hope this helps.
Edit Add: forgot to mention Fuel Injectors, Ignition Coils, and sensors, as other things that you need to look for in the service records as to have been replaced.
Last edited by GC996; Jun 13, 2021 at 01:21 AM.
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I've bought 3 ultra low mile , one a 20 yr old 996, a 10 yr old 85 turbo and and a 4 yr old 89 targa. zero issues other than normal maintenance. Also had a new 04 996 for 16 yrs with original imsb and zero issues other than oil change. PPI is your friend as stated above.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2021
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Sorry to hijack thread, I am in the same situation....how much should I be concerned about bore scoring in a 2003 C2 with 31k miles? PPI did not perform compression test or bore score check, but he did say no metal in oil at all. This PPI shop I hired is a Porsche specialist. Should I have a second PPI at a different shop just for bore score and compression?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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From: Illinois
Sorry to hijack thread, I am in the same situation....how much should I be concerned about bore scoring in a 2003 C2 with 31k miles? PPI did not perform compression test or bore score check, but he did say no metal in oil at all. This PPI shop I hired is a Porsche specialist. Should I have a second PPI at a different shop just for bore score and compression?
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2019
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From: Illinois
The reason I ask is that
There are a lot of things that can cause bore scoring of which you can search RL on the topic. FSI and LN engineering have done a lot of videos on the topic. Such as high ethanol content gas, garage queens that are not properly driven but instead started, idled, moved and then parked again. Not replacing Ignition Coils, fuel injectors, sensors. Never changing the oil. Porsche says 15k miles which is ill advised imho. So you may only have 2 oil changes in 20 years. Not good for oil or engine. The more oil changes the better. Not doing the Porsche service schedule with replacements parts, especially after 20 years.
PPI with bore scope or worst case oil testing beyond checking for metal certainly helps to identify if there is an issue. You get the idea. Service records will tell you how well cared it has been. Remember, most people are cheap, especially with car service, and 20 year old garage queens can very well be underserviced and at risk without knowing it.
Not saying any of this to scare you. I drive mine around town and have tracked it since 2004. Never had any engine problems, nor show any bore scoring issues. But I have serviced the he'll out of the car for nearly 20 years and am obsessive about oil changes, not to mention did all of the preventative things I could do early to prolong engine life. It's an awesome car that I will never get rid of.
As I said earlier, it's not the cost to buy the car that is expensive, even with rising prices. It's the cost of maintaining the car so it's in top shape mechanically. Most owners have failed regardless of high or low mileage.
There are a lot of things that can cause bore scoring of which you can search RL on the topic. FSI and LN engineering have done a lot of videos on the topic. Such as high ethanol content gas, garage queens that are not properly driven but instead started, idled, moved and then parked again. Not replacing Ignition Coils, fuel injectors, sensors. Never changing the oil. Porsche says 15k miles which is ill advised imho. So you may only have 2 oil changes in 20 years. Not good for oil or engine. The more oil changes the better. Not doing the Porsche service schedule with replacements parts, especially after 20 years.
PPI with bore scope or worst case oil testing beyond checking for metal certainly helps to identify if there is an issue. You get the idea. Service records will tell you how well cared it has been. Remember, most people are cheap, especially with car service, and 20 year old garage queens can very well be underserviced and at risk without knowing it.
Not saying any of this to scare you. I drive mine around town and have tracked it since 2004. Never had any engine problems, nor show any bore scoring issues. But I have serviced the he'll out of the car for nearly 20 years and am obsessive about oil changes, not to mention did all of the preventative things I could do early to prolong engine life. It's an awesome car that I will never get rid of.
As I said earlier, it's not the cost to buy the car that is expensive, even with rising prices. It's the cost of maintaining the car so it's in top shape mechanically. Most owners have failed regardless of high or low mileage.
Last edited by GC996; Jun 13, 2021 at 10:18 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 289
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It does have original ignition coils and plugs. Or at least the "old style" coil packs, which led PPI to believe they are both original parts. At 31k miles, that's less than 3k per year since new.
If I can't obtain service history, should I opt for getting bore scope checked ? Should I do it anyway for peace of mind? I think so. They also noted oil was in good shape, not super dark. He said that if there were scored cylinders bores, there would be other signs or symptoms in which he would see? It is my understanding this is NOT the case, and just like IMS, there's no way to check without getting inside?
If I can't obtain service history, should I opt for getting bore scope checked ? Should I do it anyway for peace of mind? I think so. They also noted oil was in good shape, not super dark. He said that if there were scored cylinders bores, there would be other signs or symptoms in which he would see? It is my understanding this is NOT the case, and just like IMS, there's no way to check without getting inside?
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Joined: Dec 2019
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From: Illinois
If none of these things have been done, and it turns out you have bore scoring, you will need to spend 20-30k sooner for a rebuild.
Regardless, it's a 20 year old car and a rebuild will eventually need to be done. It may be next year or it may be in 7 more years. Just factor that into your planning. The good news is that they aren't making any more 996s. Certainly helps with future prices and your willingness to spend the money servicing the car in the future.
I would buy mine all over again, for the same price I paid in 2002. Plus put all of the money into servicing it all over again. Why, because it's an awesome car.
Edit Add: Water pump replacement is critical.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 579
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From: Central MA
I watched a Jay Leno You Tube episode last night and he was asked if he preferred low mileage cars and he replied that oil is like blood and it needs to be circulating to keep the car in good health - he likes higher mileage cars that show regular use.
Long-time Porsche window shopper, but getting more serious about a 996.
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Racer
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 289
Likes: 179
Also, I may add that the shop I used for PPI, was phenomenal, and I would certainly use them again. But the discrepancy here is in the fact that my local shop says bore check and compression test are crucial, and the PPI shop I used, says he rarely sees compression or bore scoring without any accompanying signs, and kind of made it like its OK not to check.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 703
Likes: 252
From: Scottsdale
Long-time Porsche window shopper, but getting more serious about a 996.
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Question.... Would it be better to target a lower mileage vehicle and pay more up front, or go with a higher mileage vehicle that's less expensive? A lower mileage vehicle may not have had the critical maintenance performed (IMS/RMS), but the same could be true of a high-mileage vehicle. If I get a high-mileage vehicle, would I be better served to just drive it until something goes wrong (still doing regular maintenance, of course), or just go ahead and perhaps have the engine rebuilt to get a good start. With some of the prices I've seen for high-mileage 996's, there'd still be plenty in the piggy bank to fund an engine rebuild.
Thanks in advance for your insight.
Mike
Chose to follow his advice. Got mine Jan 2021, 27.5K miles, good records, mature previous owner, Only 200 stage 1 revs, maintained for years by Porsche specialists High-Tec Auto, California car all its life, extensive PPI - passed with flying colors. $29K, semi special color - Glacier White. So far has worked out great..
Last edited by Putt-Putt; Jun 13, 2021 at 01:11 PM.