PUZZ1

Saw a 02 C4S with a little more than 40k miles on it Has not had the IMS replaced. Asking mid $40s for the car. A. How concerned would you be about this. B. What is a non fix worth of the purchase price? C. Would you take the gamble based on the mileage or get the IMS replaced. Seller says it's been looked at and he was advised not to spend the $$ to replace.

hatchetf15

Look at BaT auction results from the last 12 months. Should tell you that mid-40s is too high for the car you mention.

dporto

Even with the $4k that it'll cost for the installation of the "IMS Solution" it's still priced about $5k too high. "Seller says it's been looked at and he was advised not to spend the $$ to replace." - What does this even mean? Of course he said that... and it's meaningless...If you didn't say it already, your reply should be - Oh really? Cool, can I see the written report? Oh you don't have one? Hmmm, ok give me the number of the shop and the name of the guy you spoke to. At that point, you call and speak to the guy and ask him how familiar he is with the M96 engine platform, and exactly how he determined the health of the IMSB... I'd love to hear his reply...

4Driver4

Agreed that the car is overpriced.
If you buy it, skip the IMS service and just change the bearing (Retrofit or Solution). Not worth the effort to change the IMS.

85eurocarrera

☝️This😁

every time I see IMS.....🤦🏻

PUZZ1

Ok. By IMS replacement I suppose I was thinking the "solution" fix. Sorry, not 100 percent up in this stuff.

dporto

IMS = Intermediate Shaft. IMSB = Intermediate Shaft Bearing... This is the part that generally fails (although the shaft itself can fail as well - the gears can slip as they are installed at the factory with an interference fit) and is generally replaceable by removing the flange on the front of the engine (after removing the transmission). There are exceptions to this as well - the most recent bearing used is not removable without splitting the crankcase halves. Keep reading and asking questions - if you decide to buy one of these cars due diligence will pay off handsomely.

PUZZ1

So for this particular car that has had nothing done to it with respect to the IMS / IMSB am I looking at a $4000 fix for the LN "solution"? Again, the car has 40,000 miles on it.

dporto

40k miles would be considered low milage for a 19 year old car. $4k for the "IMS Solution" is a ballpark price that includes the installation of the "solution" (Patented Plain bearing with filtered oil feed). The price for this service will vary depending on the shop that does the job and whether they do anything else (clutch, flywheel etc.) while they're in there. For a car like this you'll also want to look at maintenance records, how many owners, etc...

shft22

One thing to consider is, does this car has the original engine or was it replaced under warranty by Porsche. My 02 4S has a factory replacement engine and this engine has the large more reliable IMS. This may be why the current owner was advised not to change it.

dporto

If it is the large bearing it can only be changed by splitting the case halves (Big money! ) the good news is that the large bearing has a very low failure rate (much lower than the 8% with the small single row bearing).

4Driver4

AFAIK, the IMS can only fail in one way: when the sprocket slips on the shaft. Are you saying that some MY cars are more susceptible to this than others?

exthree

The IMSB fails because the IMS has excessive runout. /X3

golock911

Echoing above. Price is too high for the documentation provided. Having proof of the condition of the engine is the key in setting the price. Otherwise, it's a $25-$35K risk for a rebuilt engine. Proof is a report of an invasive PPI showing the bores are clean, the sump has no weird bits and pieces, and there is no crap in the oil filter. The problem is that it's a weird market right now. Prices are going up, meaning it's a seller market. More risk to the buyer. Good luck! Hope to see you get one. These are amazing vehicles. Never ending smiles...

PUZZ1

Hope so. The car is still available so maybe the market is speaking. The car is priced the same as cars that have had the fix. And the car may need a clutch too. Seems like the right strike price is sub 40k - like maybe 38ish.