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I brought a totaled 996 sight unseen at a car auction and I need help. Dun Dun Dun....
Hold on now, let me explain. This is going to be a fun project.
Before I start talking about the car. Let me introduce myself. My name is Kris and I have always been a Porsche fanatic. After High school I attend Universal Technical Institute then was accepted into the PTAP program. 6 months later I was a factory trained Porsche Technician. I landed a job at a Porsche dealership near my home town right around the time the 997.2 was coming out. Life was great. I achieved a huge milestone in my life while being around, working on and driving some fantastic cars as a 20 year old. 5 years later and the dealership life was starting to drain on me. I still loved the cars, I enjoyed wrenching but dealership politics and flat rate had me second guessing the path I chose. Plus I wanted to own these cars, not just wrench on them. While possible while being a tech or taking another avenue within a dealership, it just wasn't for me anymore. Quiescently, my best friend had just been laid off during the crash of 08, the stars aligned and we started our own company in a unrelated field. Flash forward 7 years the company is going great and I am finally in a position to get my first Porsche.
The first one was actually kind of spontaneous. I saw 03 996 Tip posted online that did not run. Turn the key and only get a "click". The guy was in over his head and wanted out from under the car. $3,500 and an old motorcycle later, I have myself a roller. The original plan was to buy a totaled car on Copart, swap the engine while saving to get nickies on the original engine and build that. Well it didn't quite work out that way as I saw another car on Copart and just had to have it... After some background research on the car, I was willing to take the risk and bid on it sight unseen.
Now onto the car in question. This is my lightly optioned 2003 C4S with 85,000 miles. The car has H&R suspension and (I think) Phonix manifolds and mufflers . Unfortunately the car sustained minor accident damage to the left front. The majority of the damage was the upper left tub, right at the hood seal. Secondary damage includes the hood, front bumper, and the fender is slightly tweaked. Thankfully there is no frame damage and the front end is still straight. The car runs and drives beautifully, with no abnormal noises, lights or major issues I could tell on the quick 5 mile test drive. Pulling the car into the garage, I knew it was going to be awhile before it leaves again.
With having no service records, the first thing on the list is looking at the oil and scoping the cylinders. Oil looked as if it had been changed within the last 1,000 miles in terms of color. I captured a sample and am awaiting the results of a oil analysis. Coils are cracked which is no surprise and the plugs were ehh but consistent between cylinders. Scoping the front the cylinders did not show any signs of bore scoring so onto the nest step! Dropped the sump and scoped the rear, no scoring! score!! But, while I was looking into the sump I noticed something very intriguing. There was white RTV between the case half's, hmmm, I looked over at the cam covers, same thing... white RTV. Someone has been in this engine before....! Alright, that's interesting.. lets go onto the next thing on the list and see what the RMS / IMS look like. After dropping the transmission I am greeted with a IMS cover I have never seen before. And that my friends, brings us to today.
Now what are my plans with the car? First of all I want to take care of all deferred maintenance including: Coils, plugs, water pump, now temp thermostat, oil filer pipe, vacuum tank, vacuum lines & valves, intake manifold gaskets, injectors, correct misc engine oil leaks, both front inner CV boots, both front diff axle seals, timing chain tensioners (maybe?) and exchanging all fluids (oil, transmission, front diff, brake (clutch), power steering and coolant). Next was an UAOS and an LN IMS, but that's where I am stuck on the mechanical side of things. Cosmetically? The car has a few issues. The wing was poorly painted with horrendous orange peal and clear coat runs. The rest of the paint has a few burn marks from previous details, and the rear bumper could really use a respray. I know I need a front bumper assembly; I might be able to save the hood and fender. The damage to the tub is just going to get beat out with a hammer.
At the end of the day, this car will always have a salvage title, it will never be close to showroom condition and might not be worth the money I am putting into it. But for me, its not about that. This car has a story behind it and I am adding to that story. I am saving one from a junk yard and giving it another chance to tear up the pavement with me for years to come.
Still with me? Awesome! I need some help! Anything else I should replace "while I am in there"? Also, does anyone have any information on what IMS bearing cover that is?
I am going to be dropping the engine to take care of some of the items on the list above. Stay tuned as I will be updating the thread with what I find next.
From a rebuild perspective, this looks like a good pickup, doesn't look like its mangled much at all. Hopefully, there aren't any hidden surprised but it sounds like you are off to a good start.
Wish I could help answer your questions but after reading the entire post, I'm really excited for you. Spent a lot of time in a 996 4S and I loved every minute. Miss the note of the NA exhaust but happy with what I replaced it with. Great looking car and can't wait to see the progress!
Such a cool post and a really cool story! I’m not technical enough to add anything to the discussion but when it’s done you should drive it through LA so I can take a look!
keep this thread updated please!
Good pick up Kris! So given your history, I'm sure you're familiar with the saying "a cheap Porsche is the most expensive car you'll ever own"...?! This is just a little perspective check It seems like you're going into this with your eye open though, so here we go... (I assume you're doing the work yourself right?). Do you have a budget? Have you thought about it? Hopefully it's not a "do it as cheaply as possible and drive it as soon as I can" scenario. Obviously, this is sort of everyone's mindset overall, but this is what leads to cutting corners, and ultimately pain and sorrow! Plan it out, do it right the first time, and you'll be happy in the end.
1) Pull the IMSB flange and bearing - it doesn't matter what kind of shape it's in (or you think it's in) replace it. If you never want to worry about it again, replace it with the IMSSolution...
2) Rear main seal is dry - leave it alone! Some others here will say change it out - everyone's entitled to their opinion...
3) Drop the sump plate and scope the bores from underneath - this is where scoring usually starts, and if you catch any signs early you can mitigate potential causes to some extent (check out FSI/Knowledge Gruppe videos)
4) AOS - check with manometer - consider doing Ultimate AOS mod. Check intake plenum/runners for accumulated oil.
5) Check all coils/plugs
6) ** Consider getting a Durametric analysis tool - while it's not cheap, it can save you thousands of $'s in the long run (this should probably be your first purchase!)
7) The body/chassis stuff looks fairly minor, but it's hard to believe they "totaled" it for that (I know, Ins. Co's are funny this way) - as I'm sure you know, these cars don't have "frame's" - the body IS the frame - this is why when there's any damage to the "tub" area they automatically total it. This doesn't mean the chassis is bent, just that they don't want to certify a repair. In any case, it looks easy to fix - make sure it gets done right and is checked for straightness.
8) Radiators/Condensors/Cooling - Check them out well, especially that front left corner. If you have the budget, replace the stock rads with the CSF units - they're higher flow and are a worthwhile upgrade (and not that expensive). I don't know if the C4S has the center rad stock??? if not you may want to do that also - water pump/low temp thermostat is a "must do while you're in there".
You've already mentioned a lot of this stuff, so it seems you've got a good start on a plan. There isn't a whole lot else to do on the engine unless you're planning a complete tear-down (then you're talking big $). Timing chains and guides, cam chains/tensioner pads, hydraulic chain tensioners (don't have to tear down for these - but they probably don't need replacement unless you've got excessive chain rattle. A little bit on start up that goes away in a few seconds is fairly normal). Anyway, good luck - make sure whatever you do, document it (with photo's please) for our viewing pleasure! Good luck
Congrats on reaching your goals and achieving your dream!
Looks and sounds like you know more than most of us experience wise...
Good luck and do keep us up to date on the rebuild.
What's wrong with the first one and what's a totaled 4S cost these days? I'd like to save another myself!
I have a good running (low mile) motor and will sell it if I don't find another roller...
Being a businessman, I am more excited to hear about your business than the car. lol
Nice project. Being a tech, this car will not be an issue as far as sunk costs. I don't see you losing any money on this project. Your project car is one I would have no problem taking on. If all else fails, you can always part it out and make money.
are the rear hard-rubber bumpers on either side of license plate painted silver? My 4s they are black, took me a minute to realize why your car's rear end looked so different
Good pick up Kris! So given your history, I'm sure you're familiar with the saying "a cheap Porsche is the most expensive car you'll ever own"...?! This is just a little perspective check It seems like you're going into this with your eye open though, so here we go... (I assume you're doing the work yourself right?). Do you have a budget? Have you thought about it? Hopefully it's not a "do it as cheaply as possible and drive it as soon as I can" scenario. Obviously, this is sort of everyone's mindset overall, but this is what leads to cutting corners, and ultimately pain and sorrow! Plan it out, do it right the first time, and you'll be happy in the end.
1) Pull the IMSB flange and bearing - it doesn't matter what kind of shape it's in (or you think it's in) replace it. If you never want to worry about it again, replace it with the IMSSolution...
2) Rear main seal is dry - leave it alone! Some others here will say change it out - everyone's entitled to their opinion...
3) Drop the sump plate and scope the bores from underneath - this is where scoring usually starts, and if you catch any signs early you can mitigate potential causes to some extent (check out FSI/Knowledge Gruppe videos)
4) AOS - check with manometer - consider doing Ultimate AOS mod. Check intake plenum/runners for accumulated oil.
5) Check all coils/plugs
6) ** Consider getting a Durametric analysis tool - while it's not cheap, it can save you thousands of $'s in the long run (this should probably be your first purchase!)
7) The body/chassis stuff looks fairly minor, but it's hard to believe they "totaled" it for that (I know, Ins. Co's are funny this way) - as I'm sure you know, these cars don't have "frame's" - the body IS the frame - this is why when there's any damage to the "tub" area they automatically total it. This doesn't mean the chassis is bent, just that they don't want to certify a repair. In any case, it looks easy to fix - make sure it gets done right and is checked for straightness.
8) Radiators/Condensors/Cooling - Check them out well, especially that front left corner. If you have the budget, replace the stock rads with the CSF units - they're higher flow and are a worthwhile upgrade (and not that expensive). I don't know if the C4S has the center rad stock??? if not you may want to do that also - water pump/low temp thermostat is a "must do while you're in there".
You've already mentioned a lot of this stuff, so it seems you've got a good start on a plan. There isn't a whole lot else to do on the engine unless you're planning a complete tear-down (then you're talking big $). Timing chains and guides, cam chains/tensioner pads, hydraulic chain tensioners (don't have to tear down for these - but they probably don't need replacement unless you've got excessive chain rattle. A little bit on start up that goes away in a few seconds is fairly normal). Anyway, good luck - make sure whatever you do, document it (with photo's please) for our viewing pleasure! Good luck
dporto, Thanks for taking the time to write out your response and advise! To answer your questions; yes, all work will be complete3d by myself with a budget in place. This is by no means going to be a cheap and quick just to get it on the road. I am going to go through the car and get it back to fully functional with a lot of the known issues taken care of. Most of the repairs will be done properly and to the book (short of replacing the tub sections because of the dent).
to answer your other questions:
1) I completely agree with you. However, I am a little skeptical to just go and try to replace the bearing as if it were stock. I know that this engine has been cracked in half because of the white RTV. Porsche only used black on these engines. Because I have been out of the Porsche world for a while I am not sure of the first solutions to the IMS issue. I am fairly sure there were bearing replacements where you needed to split the case. If I do have one of these solutions, is that bearing still able to be replaced using the LN replacement? I am not sure. I am currently waiting on a cam locking tool so I can remove the tensioners and the bearing cover. Once this is off, I will hopefully be able to get more information on the bearing I have installed to send the LN and get their opinion on my options.
2) I am on the fence on this one. On one hand, im already at the bearing, its quick and easy to throw in. On the other these 6MT transmission basically fall out of the car, so it would be easy to replace if/when it leaks.
3) I have already dropped the dump and checked for scoring on both sides of the cylinder. I am lucky that I see no signs of scoring.
4) The AOS looks original or very old. This will be replaced with a UAOS.
5) Coils are all cracked. Plugs look ehh but are consistent between cylinders. Both will be replaced.
6) Durametric or foxwell? I keep flip flopping which I want to get. I won’t ask for opinions as I know this has been beat to death. But one of these is in my future.
7) I have been watching insurance auctions on these cars for a while in anticipation of a project like this. From what I have seen it seems like if there is ANY damage to the tub, the car is usually totaled. I believe this in addition to owners not accepting a repair to the car and the massive depreciation these cars take when there is an accident on a Carfax.
7A) When I mentioned the frame, I was speaking about the main rail that is on either side of the tub and attaches to the front crash bar. I have seen these rails cut out and replaced before, but that is a little outside of my experience level right now. The tub is just going to get beat out with a hammer while, everything else has measured straight so far.
8) I did not know about CSF radiators. I will be looking into these. I believe that only tiptronics had center radiators until you get to the turbo / GT2’s but I could be mistaken. My other C2 is a Tiptronic and has a center radiator. I wonder if it would be worth it to swap that into my C4S. Hmm Free mod?!
Originally Posted by 808Bill
Congrats on reaching your goals and achieving your dream!
Looks and sounds like you know more than most of us experience wise...
Good luck and do keep us up to date on the rebuild.
What's wrong with the first one and what's a totaled 4S cost these days? I'd like to save another myself!
I have a good running (low mile) motor and will sell it if I don't find another roller...
Bill, thanks for the feedback! I have been out of the Porsche world for awhile and A LOT has changed with these 996’s over the increased time and mileage. I am just trying to soak up everything that you all have been learning about these cars!
The first one has a blown engine. From the bits of information, I have gotten and from looking at the engine. It looks like the PO wanted to take his Porsche for its first track event and he did just that. ONLY took his car for the track event. Did not change the oil, was probably using the wrong type of oil, and gave no thought to oil pressure or temperature.
I am eventually going to tear it down and see if it can be used as a core for a Niki build in the future. As of now, I have pulled the plugs and found a cylinder number 6 is missing.
I have been watching Porsche insurance auctions for awhile now and have a pretty good handle on what they are bringing. All of these numbers are based on the extent of the damage but I mainly watched cars that I felt could be rebuildable without needing a frame machine. These cars consist of “minor” front or rear end damage. 996’s are generally in the 5-10k price point with C4S going slightly higher. 997’s can be found in the 15-25k range with Specialty cars(Turbo, Gt2/3) & 997.2/991 being 30k+ and out of my current price range for a rebuild.
I fell right into that pack with mine coming in at $11,700 after auction fees. Thankfully, the lot was only a few hours away, so I drive to pick the car up myself instead of having it shipped.
If you are looking for a roller, looks at vehicle that are listed as having “Mechanical” or “undercarriage” damage. These will usually go for less because most scrappers know the value of these cars in the engine.
Last edited by kwright997; 06-22-2020 at 10:33 AM.
Being a businessman, I am more excited to hear about your business than the car. lol
Nice project. Being a tech, this car will not be an issue as far as sunk costs. I don't see you losing any money on this project. Your project car is one I would have no problem taking on. If all else fails, you can always part it out and make money.
I'm also curious how much this car cost.
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Prelude,
My company is an design / build Audio Visual integration firm that specializes in the commercial market. We handle everything from simple k-12 classroom setups to full blown executive conference rooms to 911 call centers or military command and control centers.
are the rear hard-rubber bumpers on either side of license plate painted silver? My 4s they are black, took me a minute to realize why your car's rear end looked so different
Yes, they are painted (and cracking)! I do not think this was a factory option however, I have found them for sale pre-painted from bumperplugs.com for $350.
I don't know if i prefer painted or black, what do you think?
Yes, they are painted (and cracking)! I do not think this was a factory option however, I have found them for sale pre-painted from bumperplugs.com for $350.
I don't know if i prefer painted or black, what do you think?
I think the black gives it some contrast vs the all silver. Just my $.02
That's not the non-serviceable bearing - they have the large nut. Do "The IMS Solution" since you're doing the job yourself. It's worth the extra $1k for the part, and you'll never have to worry about it again.
I dropped the engine a few weeks ago and took apart the upper intake manifolds, vacuum system and AOS. Then it sat for a few weeks.. Work picked up, friends needed help with their houses and just life got in the way. The fun project always seem to get pushed to the back burner, don’t they?
The past few nights after work I have gotten the IMS Solution most of the wall installed. I just need to install the oil filter housing and run the oil line. I will probably wait until the engine is installed for this.
I am extremely glad I decided to replace the old bearing! With it removed, I can defiantly feel a few rough spots and there is some axial movement.
With the old bearing removed, I made another interesting discovery in the history of this engine. It seems like at some point, the IMS shaft was pinned. You can see very distinctly see that there was a hole drilled into the shaft and pinned.
Now this presented a new problem. Because whoever pinned the shaft did not clean up the inside, there are barbed pieces of metal in the way of the cap that is supposed to be installed before the Solution is installed. I first taped off the opening around the IMS to collect any debris that might fall, then stuffed a few towels into the IMS. I removed the larger bits of metal with needle nose pliers, then used a cone shaped sandpaper bit on a dremel to smooth everything out.
The lower intake manifolds, fuel rails and injectors are removed. The lower intake gaskets were damaged during shipping, so that is holding me up on the reassembly.
Moving on, I replaced the rear main seal, all 4 solenoid caps, both cam shaft sensors (found oil inside the connector on bank 2), and the oil cooler.
Tonight I will be working on the water pump / thermostat and starting on getting the engine bay cleaned up.
05-10-2020, 07:02 PM
My Totaled C4S
It seems like you're going into this with your eye open though, so here we go... (I assume you're doing the work yourself right?). Do you have a budget? Have you thought about it? Hopefully it's not a "do it as cheaply as possible and drive it as soon as I can" scenario. Obviously, this is sort of everyone's mindset overall, but this is what leads to cutting corners, and ultimately pain and sorrow! 
Plan it out, do it right the first time, and you'll be happy in the end.
