Coilovers... Are You Doing it Wrong?
07-20-2022, 03:00 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I'm not sure if it relates but I recently put Koni Yellows on my car, which are adjustable. I left them at the softest setting, then later went to "+" (1/2 turn). The wheel control AND ride quality actually got better, just like the experience of the Feal folks here. I recently went up another half turn and, sure enough, ride quality is at least as good and there is less unwanted motion when matters get curvy. In short I'm experiencing a similar ah-ha moment. In fact this thread is what motivated me to crank them up.
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wdb (07-20-2022)
07-20-2022, 07:23 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Absolutely agree the system needs to be tuned together. Expect several adjustments to find what you like. I started my Ohlin's at 20/20 and worked down to 15/10. Then I changed out the wheels from 17 to 18". They are heavier and wider and made the car feel slow. 2 more adjustments to find 12/8. For now...
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dporto (07-21-2022)
07-20-2022, 07:25 PM
#64
Instructor
Absolutely agree the system needs to be tuned together. Expect several adjustments to find what you like. I started my Ohlin's at 20/20 and worked down to 15/10. Then I changed out the wheels from 17 to 18". They are heavier and wider and made the car feel slow. 2 more adjustments to find 12/8. For now...
07-21-2022, 12:29 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Nope. Sorry, I left out F/R. I always report the front setting first. The fronts are softer. A setting of 20 is the softest.
A point for all street folks to consider is optimal handling vs. personal preference. My settings may be very different from others due to both the car and my personal preference. I have no idea whether this setting will create the optimal handling, although it feels sharper and more responsive than the other settings, I have no way to prove that it is.
A point for all street folks to consider is optimal handling vs. personal preference. My settings may be very different from others due to both the car and my personal preference. I have no idea whether this setting will create the optimal handling, although it feels sharper and more responsive than the other settings, I have no way to prove that it is.
07-21-2022, 08:29 AM
#66
Instructor
Nope. Sorry, I left out F/R. I always report the front setting first. The fronts are softer. A setting of 20 is the softest.
A point for all street folks to consider is optimal handling vs. personal preference. My settings may be very different from others due to both the car and my personal preference. I have no idea whether this setting will create the optimal handling, although it feels sharper and more responsive than the other settings, I have no way to prove that it is.
A point for all street folks to consider is optimal handling vs. personal preference. My settings may be very different from others due to both the car and my personal preference. I have no idea whether this setting will create the optimal handling, although it feels sharper and more responsive than the other settings, I have no way to prove that it is.
07-21-2022, 10:12 AM
#67
One thing I've learned from people much smarter than me is that stiffer is not always faster. There is also a reason why you drop your tire air pressure on the track. It may give you a feeling of being faster but in practice it's not. Suspension is made to suspend the car and maintain a constant contact patch between as much of the tire as possible and the ground. If your set up is too stiff, the tire may skip over sharper bumps and etc and actually upset the car. You want your damper to react quickly to the changes on the road and damped in a way that it moves the wheel up and down accordingly without excessive energy transferred to the car body itself. I think that's where Ohlins really shine and why I chose them - the DFV is really something. Watching some track cars being set up, they are quite low to have the lowest center of gravity but the dampers are set quite soft to keep the car composed. It's all quite fascinating and requires testing and trial and error to dial in. Things like car weight and even the weight of the driver are taken into account as it all adds up. Just imagine a lightweight race car with a 150lb driver vs a 220lb driver. Car will definitely need different set ups.
07-21-2022, 12:14 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
The 996 by factory design has understeer to eliminate the "widow maker" characteristics of past 911s. You wouldnt know this if you just drive your car on the street other than your rear end doesn't come around very easily. But you will know this if you track your car at a more advanced level and speed.
So when I added coilovers (Bilstein PSS9) back in 2007, i went to full stiff on the rears and a notch above half stiff on the fronts. I also added tarret sway bars and went with full stiff on the rears and the least stiff on the front sway bars. I also had the car set up to GT3 specs and added a Guard LSD. It took a few track days with my indy at the track to help me dial in the settings. I haven't changed it since. The car has incredible turn-in and rotation without the fear of the back end coming around, not to mention it sticks on the exit. Never added any aero because I didn't want to mess with other variables with handling.
Yep, the car is stiff on the street, but it drives like a go cart in town and on the highway and the stiffness doesn't bother me because I don't want to mess with the settings. Next year I will replace the Bilsteins with either the Bilstein Clubsports or a set of JRZs. But I dread the time it will take to set-up the JRZs on the track, but i do like the additional adjustability. I may even decide to just put on a set of PSS10s to keep it simple since I already know the characteristics of the coilovers. The only difference is that the PSS10s have 10 clicks of adjustability versus 9.
Here is the point, there is a big difference between street driving, track driving and combo street and track with the set-up, and how it will feel. Most folks on this thread wont get very serious about tracking their car beyond an occasional event, which means your requirements for coilovers and suspension parts will be minimal. Those that are big-time DE enthusiasts will want and need more.
But the more you want and need to enhance handling on the track, the harsher the ride will be on the street.
It's a trade-off.
So when I added coilovers (Bilstein PSS9) back in 2007, i went to full stiff on the rears and a notch above half stiff on the fronts. I also added tarret sway bars and went with full stiff on the rears and the least stiff on the front sway bars. I also had the car set up to GT3 specs and added a Guard LSD. It took a few track days with my indy at the track to help me dial in the settings. I haven't changed it since. The car has incredible turn-in and rotation without the fear of the back end coming around, not to mention it sticks on the exit. Never added any aero because I didn't want to mess with other variables with handling.
Yep, the car is stiff on the street, but it drives like a go cart in town and on the highway and the stiffness doesn't bother me because I don't want to mess with the settings. Next year I will replace the Bilsteins with either the Bilstein Clubsports or a set of JRZs. But I dread the time it will take to set-up the JRZs on the track, but i do like the additional adjustability. I may even decide to just put on a set of PSS10s to keep it simple since I already know the characteristics of the coilovers. The only difference is that the PSS10s have 10 clicks of adjustability versus 9.
Here is the point, there is a big difference between street driving, track driving and combo street and track with the set-up, and how it will feel. Most folks on this thread wont get very serious about tracking their car beyond an occasional event, which means your requirements for coilovers and suspension parts will be minimal. Those that are big-time DE enthusiasts will want and need more.
But the more you want and need to enhance handling on the track, the harsher the ride will be on the street.
It's a trade-off.
Last edited by GC996; 07-21-2022 at 12:23 PM.
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07-21-2022, 01:00 PM
#69
Instructor
The 996 by factory design has understeer to eliminate the "widow maker" characteristics of past 911s. You wouldnt know this if you just drive your car on the street other than your rear end doesn't come around very easily. But you will know this if you track your car at a more advanced level and speed.
So when I added coilovers (Bilstein PSS9) back in 2007, i went to full stiff on the rears and a notch above half stiff on the fronts. I also added tarret sway bars and went with full stiff on the rears and the least stiff on the front sway bars. I also had the car set up to GT3 specs and added a Guard LSD. It took a few track days with my indy at the track to help me dial in the settings. I haven't changed it since. The car has incredible turn-in and rotation without the fear of the back end coming around, not to mention it sticks on the exit. Never added any aero because I didn't want to mess with other variables with handling.
Yep, the car is stiff on the street, but it drives like a go cart in town and on the highway and the stiffness doesn't bother me because I don't want to mess with the settings. Next year I will replace the Bilsteins with either the Bilstein Clubsports or a set of JRZs. But I dread the time it will take to set-up the JRZs on the track, but i do like the additional adjustability. I may even decide to just put on a set of PSS10s to keep it simple since I already know the characteristics of the coilovers. The only difference is that the PSS10s have 10 clicks of adjustability versus 9.
Here is the point, there is a big difference between street driving, track driving and combo street and track with the set-up, and how it will feel. Most folks on this thread wont get very serious about tracking their car beyond an occasional event, which means your requirements for coilovers and suspension parts will be minimal. Those that are big-time DE enthusiasts will want and need more.
But the more you want and need to enhance handling on the track, the harsher the ride will be on the street.
It's a trade-off.
So when I added coilovers (Bilstein PSS9) back in 2007, i went to full stiff on the rears and a notch above half stiff on the fronts. I also added tarret sway bars and went with full stiff on the rears and the least stiff on the front sway bars. I also had the car set up to GT3 specs and added a Guard LSD. It took a few track days with my indy at the track to help me dial in the settings. I haven't changed it since. The car has incredible turn-in and rotation without the fear of the back end coming around, not to mention it sticks on the exit. Never added any aero because I didn't want to mess with other variables with handling.
Yep, the car is stiff on the street, but it drives like a go cart in town and on the highway and the stiffness doesn't bother me because I don't want to mess with the settings. Next year I will replace the Bilsteins with either the Bilstein Clubsports or a set of JRZs. But I dread the time it will take to set-up the JRZs on the track, but i do like the additional adjustability. I may even decide to just put on a set of PSS10s to keep it simple since I already know the characteristics of the coilovers. The only difference is that the PSS10s have 10 clicks of adjustability versus 9.
Here is the point, there is a big difference between street driving, track driving and combo street and track with the set-up, and how it will feel. Most folks on this thread wont get very serious about tracking their car beyond an occasional event, which means your requirements for coilovers and suspension parts will be minimal. Those that are big-time DE enthusiasts will want and need more.
But the more you want and need to enhance handling on the track, the harsher the ride will be on the street.
It's a trade-off.
07-21-2022, 01:08 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Here it is sitting at Midwest Eurosport. Stealth in look by design. But completely set up for the track.
Last edited by GC996; 07-21-2022 at 01:26 PM.
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damage98MO (07-24-2022),
TheChunkNorris (07-21-2022)
07-21-2022, 02:39 PM
#71
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
One thing I've learned from people much smarter than me is that stiffer is not always faster. There is also a reason why you drop your tire air pressure on the track. It may give you a feeling of being faster but in practice it's not. Suspension is made to suspend the car and maintain a constant contact patch between as much of the tire as possible and the ground. If your set up is too stiff, the tire may skip over sharper bumps and etc and actually upset the car. You want your damper to react quickly to the changes on the road and damped in a way that it moves the wheel up and down accordingly without excessive energy transferred to the car body itself. I think that's where Ohlins really shine and why I chose them - the DFV is really something. Watching some track cars being set up, they are quite low to have the lowest center of gravity but the dampers are set quite soft to keep the car composed. It's all quite fascinating and requires testing and trial and error to dial in. Things like car weight and even the weight of the driver are taken into account as it all adds up. Just imagine a lightweight race car with a 150lb driver vs a 220lb driver. Car will definitely need different set ups.
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TheChunkNorris (07-21-2022)
07-21-2022, 02:47 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
I really want to get a ride in a car with Ohlins. It seems I might get a chance when the homie @TheChunkNorris gets back!
07-21-2022, 02:54 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
The easy solution is to get Chunk back in the country as quick as we can to go on the Tail of the Dragon trip and we can all test out each other's set-ups. It would make for a good review.
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barbancourt (07-21-2022)
07-21-2022, 03:13 PM
#75
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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damage98MO (07-24-2022)