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How much money would you negotiate for this said car knowing the calculated risk is higher for this particular engine? And how much should he budget for this rebuild?
That's up to the seller and buyer to figure out, but a full rebuild is start at $20k replacing everything that needs to be changed on the car/engine. I used to say $15k, but these cars are getting old and there are lots of other items that are needing to be replaced that could be reused previously. At the end of the day, you end up with way more car, even though you're in the car more than it is worth. Just make sure you have stated value insurance coverage and plan on keeping the car for the long haul.
If I remember the information correctly any bore in the engine can score. True bank 2 is the bigger offender. However, any bore can score. It will not get better. Don't know how long it will last. Assume at this level it's NOT making any "ticking" noise??
DITTO on 808's question above.
Nope, scoped from the spark plug hole. And no, there are no ticking noises at the moment.
this was one of my cylinders at 96k miles. The valve seat broke apart but I was idling at a gas station and turned it off within a second. Dunno if the scoring as due to the valve seat but sure doesn't look like it. Regardless, we chose to leave it as is.
Car went another 80k miles (Had 180k at castatrophic failure on track). Car had more than its fair share of 'hot suppers' and track time (at least 5-8 per year, every year since 1100 miles on the odometer when new).
You make the call.
My call is scratches in cylinder #2 (#5) from the valve seat debris being scraped along the bore before you were able to shut it off.
Let me guess what took it out catastrophically at 180k - d-chunk. Your photo shows the start of cylinder cracking in #1 (6).
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco; 01-30-2020 at 07:41 PM.
No, it was not scoped from the sump. I don't have pictures but I did see it in person. It looked similar to the photo above.
Did the spark plug from that cylinder look any different from the others?
It is also possible to pull the headers and look at the exhaust ports. Any cylinder experiencing scoring or any other damage that would cause oil consumption will result in the exhaust port for the cylinder having lots of oily deposits.
If it was me, yes. That would be negotiated at time of purchase and I would just plan that I would be budgeting for a build at some time in the future. It's a calculated risk, as is purchase of any used vehicle.
Did the spark plug from that cylinder look any different from the others?
It is also possible to pull the headers and look at the exhaust ports. Any cylinder experiencing scoring or any other damage that would cause oil consumption will result in the exhaust port for the cylinder having lots of oily deposits.
No, all six of the plugs looked good. It may be possible to pull the header if I negotiate a lower price with the seller. Previous to the PPI we were at $10K in cash plus $5K in trade for marketing services.
As to oily deposits, would heavy oil/dirt deposits at the bottom of the throttle body T-pipe be an indication of excessive blow by which might indicate scoring or excessive cylinder wear?
As to oily deposits, would heavy oil/dirt deposits at the bottom of the throttle body T-pipe be an indication of excessive blow by which might indicate scoring or excessive cylinder wear?
No, that is normal. In lieu of a running compression and leakdown test, they can take a manometer reading and that is an overall indicator of engine ring seal. Should be 4.0-6.0" h20 as a very general rule of thumb on a stock engine.
No, that is normal. In lieu of a running compression and leakdown test, they can take a manometer reading and that is an overall indicator of engine ring seal. Should be 4.0-6.0" h20 as a very general rule of thumb on a stock engine.
Thank you for the input and ideas, Charles, I really appreciate it.
If the engine ring seal came in within those specs, does that point less toward bore scoring and more toward scuffing?
Thank you for the input and ideas, Charles, I really appreciate it.
If the engine ring seal came in within those specs, does that point less toward bore scoring and more toward scuffing?
From what you described, I'm thinking it's not even scuffing. It's a scratch from debris ingested by the engine.
If the seller hasn't changed the oil in a few thousand miles, a used oil sample would show scoring, or at least the start of it, reflecting added wear in the area of Silicon and Aluminum content, which are typically low single digit numbers in these engines. The anti-wear package also would reflect a reduction in available ZDDP based off prior UOA analysis of engines with scored bores.
My call is scratches in cylinder #2 from the valve seat debris being scraped along the bore before you were able to shut it off.
Let me guess what took it out catastrophically at 180k - d-chunk. Your photo shows the start of cylinder cracking in #1.
tough to say really on what the initial cause was because EVERYTHING broke. Pistons, con rods, crankshaft snapped in half. pieces of cylinder missing, etc, etc.
Ironically, the IMS was fine :-)
But it's all really a guess and at a 180k miles, she gave her best (and I got so much out of the car over the years). It went coming out riverside onto the esses at Buttonwillow, chasing a 997 GT3RS, dying the way it was intended until she hits the road and track again next week after a 3 year haitus.
Not much to add to dporto's comments. But I agree with you. Drive it and enjoy it.
Do your homework and stay ahead of the oil changes. Especially if the car sits, undriven, for long.
Yes - there is plenty of confusing and conflicting information on these cars. Learning who to trust, and believe, is half the battle.
Welcome and best of luck with your "new" 996.
Thanks! I'm loving it so far! Spring time cannot come fast enough! What's your opinion on oil change? I'm not going to put a whole lot of mileage on it, so is it something that should be changed every 6 months, 1 year, etc?
01-30-2020 | 03:42 PM
