Wheeler Dealers 996 Project
04-19-2019, 11:35 PM
#76
Wish they would have inspected the original bearing - I have the same 2000 C2 Cab and had the IMS, RMS and AOS replaced at 27K 6 years and 30K miles ago
The car has been really great - love it and would recommend 996MK1 -not sure about the value going up like they claimed -nothing against Ant but Edd is a genius and really fun to watch
The car has been really great - love it and would recommend 996MK1 -not sure about the value going up like they claimed -nothing against Ant but Edd is a genius and really fun to watch
Actually, I haven't watched this show since Edd China left, but I must admit, this new guy is rather good. What's with Mike kissing his wrist in the commercials and smelling him? hahaha
04-20-2019, 05:44 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
I liked the episode. What I found most interesting is that it was a MY2000 and it had the small single row IMSB. MY2000 was a transition year and I assumed the vast majority had the larger duel row.
04-20-2019, 06:12 PM
#78
That's not necessarily true, right? I mean in your case it might be, if the shop that did it was thorough. But generally speaking anybody can just buy the IMS Solution and install it without going through the pre-qualifying procedure. So just because a used car has these parts installed, doesn't mean it's a healthy engine. That's like saying if I buy a FitBit and some running shoes, all the sudden I'm an athlete in great shape. That's the annoying thing about the market for these cars. People demand that the IMSB be replaced, and they'll pay more for a car that has an IMS Solution installed. But there's nothing keeping a shady owner from slapping those parts into a falling-apart engine, justifying a higher asking price, and then leaving the new owner to pick up the big bill when it hits.
04-20-2019, 07:09 PM
#79
Finally got a chance to watch the episode then read through this thread. The amount of times the said “IMS bearing” was nauseating. If I had played a drinking game while watching it for every time they said it, the bottle of bourbon I was drinking would have been gone.
It was interesting to see it all taken apart and reinstalled though. I agree that the exhaust note sounded a bit off, not exactly sure why. And I’m glad they touched on why those K&N filters were a bad idea.
$22,500 seems a bit much, for all the man hours of work they put in it didn’t look like much of a profit.
04-20-2019, 11:35 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=
. I agree that the exhaust note sounded a bit off, not exactly sure why. And I’m glad they touched on why those K&N filters were a bad idea.
[/QUOTE] I agree that the K&N is a bad idea but I do think it gives the intake a better sound which I think you can hear at the first of the show compared to later in the show after they change back to stock.
. I agree that the exhaust note sounded a bit off, not exactly sure why. And I’m glad they touched on why those K&N filters were a bad idea.
[/QUOTE] I agree that the K&N is a bad idea but I do think it gives the intake a better sound which I think you can hear at the first of the show compared to later in the show after they change back to stock.
04-21-2019, 12:17 AM
#81
I agree that the K&N is a bad idea but I do think it gives the intake a better sound which I think you can hear at the first of the show compared to later in the show after they change back to stock. https://youtu.be/KGBfx0iNeCc
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thklinge (08-16-2019)
04-21-2019, 12:56 AM
#82
Former Vendor
Its just like a Pre- op. If the patient doesn't pass the basics of a pre- op, you don't risk their life, or the success of the procedure.
04-21-2019, 05:27 AM
#83
Bottom line is, on purely technical grounds, the pre-qualification procedure has nothing to do with the IMS Solution or the installation thereof. They're not related. Lack of pre-qual cannot affect the IMS-Solution or its installation.
04-21-2019, 08:25 AM
#84
How do the over revs weigh in on the decision process? My car has none in range 2 but I've seen plenty of 996's for sale with range 2 revs. On the 996's there's no way to tell how high the revs went.
I’d like to expand a bit on the pre- qualification reasoning:
I created the pre- qualification pre-requisite for for the IMS Solution installations performed here at Flat 6. Since the product was invented, and developed here, it was available here for years before it was ever advertised. When people would inquire with us, I would offer this to them verbally, with no written materials shared. I did this because I was unsure where I wanted to be when the product was released, and also because I wanted to offer it to people that I knew I could trust. The Patent process was underway, so I could have shared anything without issue, I just chose to keep it under my hat. I do that a lot.
That said, what was most important to me was ensuring that someone did not purchase an IMS Solution, and have us install it, only to have an engine failure later. After people spend money on an elective repair like the IMS, they have zero tolerance for issues that may pop up later. The very first thing they do is blame the last person that touched the car, or the product that was installed. That is just how it is. Once I did an IMS job for a local guy, and two weeks later, his turn signals stopped working... Guess who got the blame? the bigger, and better the reputation, the more and more the expectation is. It sucks, you should give it a try sometime.
So... I developed a semi- invasive pre- qualification procedure to quantify the health of the engine before the person spends serious money on the procedure. If the engine has a symptomless issue, it is my goal to sniff out that issue before moving forward. This tells the person where they really need to spend the money, and it also saves them from “wasting” money on an IMS Solution only to have a cylinder, or something else fail very soon thereafter.
When done comprehensively, the pre- qualification works. We have installed 680+ IMS retrofit products over the years. Of those, we have not received a single report of anyone experiencing a failure of any portion of the engine later. Further, we have “downed” 30% of the engines that could have been retrofitted during that period of time.
This occurred due to issues found during pre- qualification, that I flagged, and “disqualified” the engine for retrofit. When this happened it cut into my bottom line, but it saved the owner thousands of dollars, while maintaining the reputation of the IMS Retrofit products. At the end of the week a typical shop that disqualifies an engine for IMS Retrofit has an employee go home with a skinnier paycheck, because that technician lost a job that week, and more than likely he has this occur because he DID do his job. He followed the regimen, found the issue, identified it, documented it, and for that he gets to lose money because the job. was not done. This is the problem that regular shops run into, and its one issue that at times, the technician pretends to not see certain things. Its not his shop, not his car, and not his product at risk. He ends up doing what is best for him. This is just an example, and its why you don’t want a shop doing work that pays their techs “flat rate”, on commission.
Today we only perform IMS Solution installs two months out of the year, in April, and November. I call these IMS SOlution Clinics, and we put a focus on carrying out the jobs only at these times. We don’t do nearly as many installs as we used to because of this. Our focus shifted more to only building, and developing engines. Today, when we have someone from far away wanting t ship their car to us, I don’t want to have the person spend money to ship a car that has imminent issues that are easy to find. That really pisses people off, after they spend 1K to ship a car, only for me to “shoot it down” in 5 minutes. Due to this I have a “pre” pre- inspection carried out by a local shop near them. I give the a specially prepared checklist, and have them inspect the car. If they don’t find anything, then we schedule the car for the Flat 6 Innovations IMS Solution Clinic, ship the car, do our inspection, and hopefully carry on. We still “down” some engines after all of this is done, but it its always something deeply internal that we find, and pretty much we’d only be able to find.
In this month’s IMS Solution Clinic we had 15 tentative jobs scheduled. 12 of these are what I’d consider far enough away to require the local inspection to be done first. Of those, 4 of them failed, and the others were scheduled in.
When carrying out a pre- qualification, I treat it like a pre- flight inspection. I go into the scenario looking for a problem, not believing that “everything is ok”.
!911 Syncro, and others. The term “Patented” is our way of saying “This is the genuine article, and not a knock off”. This is what happens when you are an originator, and not an imitator. That’s all.
“Assume nothing, and quantify everything” is the rule.
Hope that clears the air on the pre- qualification procedure.
I created the pre- qualification pre-requisite for for the IMS Solution installations performed here at Flat 6. Since the product was invented, and developed here, it was available here for years before it was ever advertised. When people would inquire with us, I would offer this to them verbally, with no written materials shared. I did this because I was unsure where I wanted to be when the product was released, and also because I wanted to offer it to people that I knew I could trust. The Patent process was underway, so I could have shared anything without issue, I just chose to keep it under my hat. I do that a lot.
That said, what was most important to me was ensuring that someone did not purchase an IMS Solution, and have us install it, only to have an engine failure later. After people spend money on an elective repair like the IMS, they have zero tolerance for issues that may pop up later. The very first thing they do is blame the last person that touched the car, or the product that was installed. That is just how it is. Once I did an IMS job for a local guy, and two weeks later, his turn signals stopped working... Guess who got the blame? the bigger, and better the reputation, the more and more the expectation is. It sucks, you should give it a try sometime.
So... I developed a semi- invasive pre- qualification procedure to quantify the health of the engine before the person spends serious money on the procedure. If the engine has a symptomless issue, it is my goal to sniff out that issue before moving forward. This tells the person where they really need to spend the money, and it also saves them from “wasting” money on an IMS Solution only to have a cylinder, or something else fail very soon thereafter.
When done comprehensively, the pre- qualification works. We have installed 680+ IMS retrofit products over the years. Of those, we have not received a single report of anyone experiencing a failure of any portion of the engine later. Further, we have “downed” 30% of the engines that could have been retrofitted during that period of time.
This occurred due to issues found during pre- qualification, that I flagged, and “disqualified” the engine for retrofit. When this happened it cut into my bottom line, but it saved the owner thousands of dollars, while maintaining the reputation of the IMS Retrofit products. At the end of the week a typical shop that disqualifies an engine for IMS Retrofit has an employee go home with a skinnier paycheck, because that technician lost a job that week, and more than likely he has this occur because he DID do his job. He followed the regimen, found the issue, identified it, documented it, and for that he gets to lose money because the job. was not done. This is the problem that regular shops run into, and its one issue that at times, the technician pretends to not see certain things. Its not his shop, not his car, and not his product at risk. He ends up doing what is best for him. This is just an example, and its why you don’t want a shop doing work that pays their techs “flat rate”, on commission.
Today we only perform IMS Solution installs two months out of the year, in April, and November. I call these IMS SOlution Clinics, and we put a focus on carrying out the jobs only at these times. We don’t do nearly as many installs as we used to because of this. Our focus shifted more to only building, and developing engines. Today, when we have someone from far away wanting t ship their car to us, I don’t want to have the person spend money to ship a car that has imminent issues that are easy to find. That really pisses people off, after they spend 1K to ship a car, only for me to “shoot it down” in 5 minutes. Due to this I have a “pre” pre- inspection carried out by a local shop near them. I give the a specially prepared checklist, and have them inspect the car. If they don’t find anything, then we schedule the car for the Flat 6 Innovations IMS Solution Clinic, ship the car, do our inspection, and hopefully carry on. We still “down” some engines after all of this is done, but it its always something deeply internal that we find, and pretty much we’d only be able to find.
In this month’s IMS Solution Clinic we had 15 tentative jobs scheduled. 12 of these are what I’d consider far enough away to require the local inspection to be done first. Of those, 4 of them failed, and the others were scheduled in.
When carrying out a pre- qualification, I treat it like a pre- flight inspection. I go into the scenario looking for a problem, not believing that “everything is ok”.
!911 Syncro, and others. The term “Patented” is our way of saying “This is the genuine article, and not a knock off”. This is what happens when you are an originator, and not an imitator. That’s all.
“Assume nothing, and quantify everything” is the rule.
Hope that clears the air on the pre- qualification procedure.
04-21-2019, 08:40 AM
#85
Former Vendor
No. Again, and sorry that I have to repeat myself but it's exactly what I've been trying to address; that analogy implies once more that without pre-qual you risk some sort of engine damage during install, or risk the install failing altogether. This is just not true.
Bottom line is, on purely technical grounds, the pre-qualification procedure has nothing to do with the IMS Solution or the installation thereof. They're not related. Lack of pre-qual cannot affect the IMS-Solution or its installation.
Bottom line is, on purely technical grounds, the pre-qualification procedure has nothing to do with the IMS Solution or the installation thereof. They're not related. Lack of pre-qual cannot affect the IMS-Solution or its installation.
Its pretty simple, inspect the engine and look for symptoms of in- process failures. If something is not right, spend the money correcting those impending issues before installing a product like the IMS Solution. Once corrected, then apply the IMS Solution. The priorities have to be straight.
If this does not occur in the proper manner, the chances of installing the IMS Solution, only to have the engine fail due to the underlying condition is a reality. In many cases the failure could even waste the investment that was made in the IMS Solution, as collateral damage can easily effect it.
Of course, to understand this you have to intimately understand how the engine works. Having assembled one with your own hands helps. Having one of those you assembled fail, will help more.
Ironically a guy 6 weeks sent us his car locally. All of a sudden a tow truck showed up at the gate, un announced.. The bottom of the rollback was covered in oil, where it had dumped when the car was hoisted at a steep angle onto the rollback. This happened because the IMSB failed, and a 10mm diameter hole in the IMSB flange (where the center stud used to be) had opened up, allowing the oil to release.... Classic example.
Anyway, the first thing I see under the car was a brand new, 6,000 dollar exhaust system. Finally the owner called and said that he just installed the exhaust 3 days before the failure, and that he was heartbroken because he loved the sound the car made so much. I asked him why he didn’t spend the money on the exhaust to make sure the engine didn’t have an IMSB failure. His response “I’ve read about all that on the forums, and decided it was hype”. He made a big deal wanting an “official” diagnosis, even though I had diagnosed it for free, before it even came off the truck. He wasn’t going to be happy till I provde it to him... So I snuck the bore scope into the bellhousing and shot a video of it. Then he said “How can I be sure that’s my car?”.
I decided we’d not be accepting that job, refused to take a dollar from him, and told him to get the car off my property. Somehow it was everyone else’s fault that the owner spent the money on addressing his shiny exhaust system, rather than the IMSB that failed shortly there after. Its easier to be a victim, than a failure.
So, maybe it would be smart to “pre- qualify” the engine before spending 6,000.00 on an exhaust system?
04-21-2019, 09:17 AM
#86
I said multiple times I understand and appreciate your reasoning for doing pre-qualification in your shop. They're valid and I understand why you don't want to deal with potentially bad engines. The thing I'm repeatedly addressing is that you keep wording it as if it's a pre-requisite for the job - risking consequential damage otherwise - which it's simply not. It's not required. You can replace the IMSB with the IMS Solution and neither this process nor the installed Solution will cause any damage or risk of additional damage to your engine.
This is a fact.
Whether or not it's an economically smart decision is a whole other discussion (and there too I have some reservations). Bottom line is, that if you wanted to address the IMSB and install the Solution to take away the biggest risk factor of the engine forever, you can do so without pre-qualification and without incurring any additional risk. Regardless of the state of the engine, the IMS will be fixed for the life of it.
Plenty people out there who don't deal in absolutes (only wanting a 100% perfectly immaculate engine), but take into account probabilities and failure rates and are happy enough with only fixing the statistically most significant offender, leaving the much much rarer failures to chance as if it was any other engine without an actual Achilles heel.. For that group of people, I find it important that they know they can install the IMS Solution at any time without adverse effects whatsoever.
04-21-2019, 07:13 PM
#87
I wanted to add that Mike got a really nice example to start with and for a really good price as well - I thought the 996 looked pretty good on camera
- and sometimes this forum can make me a little bummed
- and sometimes this forum can make me a little bummed
Last edited by wyo; 04-23-2019 at 05:32 PM.
04-21-2019, 08:27 PM
#88
Yeah I caught the 3.6 misspeak too. At least he properly described the 5 chain engine that it has.
04-21-2019, 09:59 PM
#89
I enjoyed the episode immensely but this was almost cheating due to how clean of an example they started with. Not to mention how cheap Mike Brewer acquired the car.
