2000 6MT Aero Cab
03-20-2019, 03:06 PM
#31
Instructor
Thanks! Mine have shifted just a bit more to -3.5 each. I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and keep taking readings before re-timing bank2 since it's the easiest to do with the engine in the car. I'll use the crank method this time:
- Turn crank until camshaft is aligned
- Insert locking tool (IMS Pro is the one that fits best in the car
- Loosen exhaust sprocket bolts
- Turn crank to TDC and lock
- Tighten exhaust sprocket bolts + loctite
03-20-2019, 03:12 PM
#32
Instructor
Thread Starter
Do you know what they were pre-change? Those are positive deviations, correct? Do you have any more readings before last week? Curious if they were just timed that way after replacement or if they have drifted some.
03-20-2019, 06:36 PM
#33
Just a car guy
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Location: South Lyon, Michigan, Ewe Ess Eh
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Mbren1979 - very sweet cab! If mine ends up half as nice I'll be happy.
cds72911 - I went ahead and got the LN tools and the LN dual row ceramic. OEM bimmer parts had the best price and they take returns for 30 days. So if I find a single row, I'll just send it back. Engine code indicates an early 2000 which increases the chances of it being a dual row.
So some updates. Got a Durametric Pro, which seems to be essentially no better than an enthusiast for these cars. Measured the camshaft deviations with the car nice and hot:
Bank 1: -9.44
Bank 2: -4.02
Well shoot. Looks like this is super common for the 5 chains even with <50k on it. Dependent on driving patterns though. So my plan goes from RMS/IMS/AOS/Plugs+Wells to pulling the engine and doing the Variocam pads. I've read it can be done in place, but considering my other work plans I don't think it's worth trying.
So I'm gonna need to re-time after replacing these. Found this kit for pretty cheap:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Anyone used it?
cds72911 - I went ahead and got the LN tools and the LN dual row ceramic. OEM bimmer parts had the best price and they take returns for 30 days. So if I find a single row, I'll just send it back. Engine code indicates an early 2000 which increases the chances of it being a dual row.
So some updates. Got a Durametric Pro, which seems to be essentially no better than an enthusiast for these cars. Measured the camshaft deviations with the car nice and hot:
Bank 1: -9.44
Bank 2: -4.02
Well shoot. Looks like this is super common for the 5 chains even with <50k on it. Dependent on driving patterns though. So my plan goes from RMS/IMS/AOS/Plugs+Wells to pulling the engine and doing the Variocam pads. I've read it can be done in place, but considering my other work plans I don't think it's worth trying.
So I'm gonna need to re-time after replacing these. Found this kit for pretty cheap:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Anyone used it?
I assume the cam deviation must be taken with the engine running? You can tell, I haven't researched this much.
Great photos and descriptions. Threads like this are so informative.
03-20-2019, 10:28 PM
#34
Instructor
Thread Starter
I did get it. There are 4 items for this job:
So overall, the price isn't bad for what you get and depending on your timing plans could be the right tool.
And yes, deviation must be measured with the engine running and hot to get a valid reading.
- Camshaft holding tool - I found these useful to hold the end of the cams when removing the covers to make sure nothing flopped around. Maybe less of a risk on the engine stand because the head was vertical, but still nice to have.
- Camshaft supports - I actually ended up needing these because I did not get a bolt to compress the variocam tensioner. Without it compressed the cams are pulled together by the tension on the chain and don't fit squarely into the bearing half on the head. I used these with the left over case bolts I replaced (which were a little short but still worked) to push the cams down into the seats to get the bearing caps back on. If you have something to compress the tensioner when installed then you might not need these. The other application would be timing with the cam cover off. But I think timing by the crankshaft my be better which doesn't need the cover off.
- Camshaft lock - this is the actual timing tool which helps you bring the camshaft to the perfect vertical orientation when you lock the crank at TDC. This worked, but I ended up being ~-3.5deg off after running and measuring deviation with the Durametric. Note that this is measured as crankshaft deviation and since the camshaft turns 1/2 as fast it's actually only ~1.75 degrees deviation on the camshaft itself. Not sure if that can be blamed on the tool, the user (maybe it wasn't perfectly straight, maybe the tensioners should have been pumped up with heavy oil, maybe it wasn't fit in tight, etc), or another source of deviation (stretched chain, weak adjuster tension). I definitely lined up the color chain links with the dots on the camshafts. I'm leaning toward user error. My new method is to turn the crank until I can fit the cam lock from the IMS Pro tool kit, then loosen the exhaust sprocket bolts and time the cam by moving the crank to TDC. I believe Jake Raby mentions using the crank to time as being more accurate in one of his posts.
- TDC pin - I already had one from the IMS Pro tool kit, so this wasn't too helpful.
So overall, the price isn't bad for what you get and depending on your timing plans could be the right tool.
And yes, deviation must be measured with the engine running and hot to get a valid reading.
04-17-2019, 12:26 PM
#35
Instructor
Thread Starter
I went ahead and did some adjusting of bank 2 to see if I could get closer to 0 deviation. I modified my procedure above a bit because it's impossible to make sure the camshaft is perfectly aligned for bank 2 with the engine in the car.
- Turn crank just past TDC. As I have negative deviation, it means that my cams are running behind the crank, so I need to advance them a bit.
- Insert locking tool (IMS Pro is the one that fits best in the car)
- Loosen exhaust sprocket bolts (scavenge pump already removed)
- Turn crank back to TDC and lock. You aren't supposed to turn the crank counter-clockwise, but for just a degree or 3 the general consensus is you're OK.
- Tighten exhaust sprocket bolts + loctite
05-01-2019, 05:05 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Did you have to drop the engine to do this?
I went ahead and did some adjusting of bank 2 to see if I could get closer to 0 deviation. I modified my procedure above a bit because it's impossible to make sure the camshaft is perfectly aligned for bank 2 with the engine in the car.
- Turn crank just past TDC. As I have negative deviation, it means that my cams are running behind the crank, so I need to advance them a bit.
- Insert locking tool (IMS Pro is the one that fits best in the car)
- Loosen exhaust sprocket bolts (scavenge pump already removed)
- Turn crank back to TDC and lock. You aren't supposed to turn the crank counter-clockwise, but for just a degree or 3 the general consensus is you're OK.
- Tighten exhaust sprocket bolts + loctite
05-01-2019, 05:09 PM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
I've done all my re-timing with the engine in the car. Note that all I have done so far is bank 2.
Just last night I again adjusted bank 2 to try and hit closer to 0. My starting point is about -2.5 degrees. I turned the crank until the notch was at the end of the TDC marking in the case. I didn't get a picture of this, but you can see in the first image it's lined up at TDC - just image it turned clockwise past TDC to the end of the TDC case marking, then locked the camshaft and loosened the exhaust cam bolts (2nd image) before turning it back to TDC (3rd image). I'll report back once I get some time to run it this weekend how much angle that distance is. I'll use this to hopefully hit bank 1 close to 0 on the first try. You can see from the images this resulted in an almost imperceptible location change of the exhaust bolts on the sprocket. That's why timing with the crank is so much more accurate.
For bank 1, I think it can also be done in the car, but it's definitely going to be more a challenge getting the scavenge pump out.
Just last night I again adjusted bank 2 to try and hit closer to 0. My starting point is about -2.5 degrees. I turned the crank until the notch was at the end of the TDC marking in the case. I didn't get a picture of this, but you can see in the first image it's lined up at TDC - just image it turned clockwise past TDC to the end of the TDC case marking, then locked the camshaft and loosened the exhaust cam bolts (2nd image) before turning it back to TDC (3rd image). I'll report back once I get some time to run it this weekend how much angle that distance is. I'll use this to hopefully hit bank 1 close to 0 on the first try. You can see from the images this resulted in an almost imperceptible location change of the exhaust bolts on the sprocket. That's why timing with the crank is so much more accurate.
For bank 1, I think it can also be done in the car, but it's definitely going to be more a challenge getting the scavenge pump out.
05-09-2019, 10:23 PM
#38
Instructor
Thread Starter
Another update on this. Looks like I overshot a bit. Bank 2 is now 4.5 degrees positive.
So as a reference for anyone who's looking to nail down timing - the crank distance from TDC to the end of the case marking for TDC (clockwise) is about 7 degrees. It took me from -2.5 to 4.5.
So as a reference for anyone who's looking to nail down timing - the crank distance from TDC to the end of the case marking for TDC (clockwise) is about 7 degrees. It took me from -2.5 to 4.5.
07-17-2019, 08:42 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
Overall a successful operation. To summarize, I replaced the RMS, IMS, AOS, WP, Thermostat (LT Wahler), Variocam pads, plugs, plug tubes, and oil pump bypass valve/spring. Switched to motul x-cess 8100 5W-40 in the engine and lubri moly in the tranny. By the way, this thing took every last drop of 10L of motul to get to the 3/4 mark on the dip stick. Kept 2nd guessing myself when filling it. But I also dumped out a lot of oil that draining the pan doesn't usually get.
Lots of fun as a father / son project. Hope my son and I get the chance to do something similar when he's older.
The results are still coming in. But I've seen a bit of a drop in the location of the temp needle for steady state. The engine is running solid. Oil pressure hasn't gone below 1 bar at hot idle (used to come down to 0.5 bar). Transmission feels great, but it always did. And time will tell on the leaks. I do see a bit of oil on one of the cam adjuster seals we replaced, not sure how we messed up a new one of those. It's easy to reach, so I might just pop it off, clean it up and replace.
Edit - forgot the big one. Camshaft deviation hot is now -3 deg bank 1 and -2.77 deg bank 2.
Lots of fun as a father / son project. Hope my son and I get the chance to do something similar when he's older.
The results are still coming in. But I've seen a bit of a drop in the location of the temp needle for steady state. The engine is running solid. Oil pressure hasn't gone below 1 bar at hot idle (used to come down to 0.5 bar). Transmission feels great, but it always did. And time will tell on the leaks. I do see a bit of oil on one of the cam adjuster seals we replaced, not sure how we messed up a new one of those. It's easy to reach, so I might just pop it off, clean it up and replace.
Edit - forgot the big one. Camshaft deviation hot is now -3 deg bank 1 and -2.77 deg bank 2.
thank you.
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