New 996 Owner
01-11-2019, 01:41 PM
#31
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
DOF with a roller bearing is just a bandaid.
Maybe it's the best bandaid, but it doesn't solve the problem.
The IMS Solution is the only solution where a roller bearing is not used.
It's the bearing type (similar to aircooled and Metzger) that should have been used in the first place.
The IMS Solution is not a bandaid, it solves the problem.
What I highlight in black, would be ok... if the IMS will fail for sure. Do you have any data that support that affirmation? Why should assume that my IMS is going to fail, when most of cars doesnt fail?
The problem is knowing when the IMS will fail.
You have to catch it before it fails.
Waiting until it wobbles some is waiting too late.
If the IMS has started to wobble, then you've waited too late.
If somebody wants to go and make a preventive chage on the engine with aftermarket parts, its ok. I am not even saying that is correct or not. But if you have a healthy engine (and these engines have demostrated that they are really realiable in most cases) dont messing with it and leaving all the factory parts working properly could be another option.
I dont like that rule "written in stone" about having to change the IMS yes or yes. Actually, Porsche workshop process specifically says to change the flange but not the bearing. Why?... I dont know but they also know something about their engines
I dont like that rule "written in stone" about having to change the IMS yes or yes. Actually, Porsche workshop process specifically says to change the flange but not the bearing. Why?... I dont know but they also know something about their engines
They also didn't solve the problem either.
But it is an easy problem to avoid.
I don't wait until parts are completely shot to replace them on my car.
That's just not the correct way to treat any car, and especially not a 20 year old Porsche.
I believe in proper vehicle maintenance.
I replace my brake pads before they're completely gone, I replace my tires before they're bald, I replace my water hoses before they've started to leak, I replace my water pump before it has started to leak, I replace my brake fluid before it has absorbed 2% water, I replace my spark plugs and coils before they've died, and I recommend replacing your IMS with a new one (or the IMS Solution) before it fails.
All of the above are maintenance items.
Most people replace ALL of that before their car is 10 years old by buying a new car.
You can continue driving your 20 year old car without replacing anything, but it will come back to bite you.
If you want a reliable car that doesn't need a lot of maintenance, sell your 996 and get a brand new car.
It will be reliable with almost no maintenance for several years.
I guess I'm a bit sensitive about vehicle maintenance because I work on vehicles for low income people.
I mainly work on very old cars (all manufacturers) that have not been maintained and are no longer safe or capable of getting their owners to and from work.
I see LOTS of poorly maintained 15-25 year old vehicles.
Most of these people can't afford to repair their cars so they bring them to us to repair for free.
I also teach vehicle maintenance classes to help them learn how to maintain their car.
I tell them that a properly maintained car is much cheaper than buying a cheap car every few years because you can't afford to repair the one that's completely worn out.
These low income people require our help to get their cars back on the road, but many of them become better at taking care of their cars.
Some have become pretty good mechanics too and now work with us providing free labor to help others.
But someone who can afford a Porsche should be able to spend the money to maintain their car, or they should sell it and buy something cheaper to maintain.
If you can't afford an IMS replacement, sell the car and buy a Honda.
There are a lot of opinions out there from forums and workshops outside of the US. This is one well reputed 911 specialist in Madrid (http://porsche911madrid.com/REVISION...0TALLERES.html). If you don't read Spanish, I will translate the highlights. More than 1000 M96 engines sold. More than 150 yearly maintenances. 1 single IMS failure. 4 IMS changed "in stremis" in cars with high milleage and no maintenance records.
01-11-2019, 04:12 PM
#32
Nope, I have no interest in people buying the IMS Solution.
DOF with a roller bearing is just a bandaid.
Maybe it's the best bandaid, but it doesn't solve the problem.
The IMS Solution is the only solution where a roller bearing is not used.
It's the bearing type (similar to aircooled and Metzger) that should have been used in the first place.
The IMS Solution is not a bandaid, it solves the problem.
DOF with a roller bearing is just a bandaid.
Maybe it's the best bandaid, but it doesn't solve the problem.
The IMS Solution is the only solution where a roller bearing is not used.
It's the bearing type (similar to aircooled and Metzger) that should have been used in the first place.
The IMS Solution is not a bandaid, it solves the problem.
For me, a better advices is, enjoy your car, keep it well maintained, use good lubricants, respect warming times, etc and when you have to do the clutch, check the IMS and if is needed (or wanted), change it.
The problem is knowing when the IMS will fail.
You have to catch it before it fails.
Waiting until it wobbles some is waiting too late.
If the IMS has started to wobble, then you've waited too late.
Porsche caused the problem.
They also didn't solve the problem either.
But it is an easy problem to avoid.
I don't wait until parts are completely shot to replace them on my car.
That's just not the correct way to treat any car, and especially not a 20 year old Porsche.
I believe in proper vehicle maintenance.
I replace my brake pads before they're completely gone, I replace my tires before they're bald, I replace my water hoses before they've started to leak, I replace my water pump before it has started to leak, I replace my brake fluid before it has absorbed 2% water, I replace my spark plugs and coils before they've died, and I recommend replacing your IMS with a new one (or the IMS Solution) before it fails.
All of the above are maintenance items.
Most people replace ALL of that before their car is 10 years old by buying a new car.
You can continue driving your 20 year old car without replacing anything, but it will come back to bite you.
If you want a reliable car that doesn't need a lot of maintenance, sell your 996 and get a brand new car.
It will be reliable with almost no maintenance for several years.
I guess I'm a bit sensitive about vehicle maintenance because I work on vehicles for low income people.
I mainly work on very old cars (all manufacturers) that have not been maintained and are no longer safe or capable of getting their owners to and from work.
I see LOTS of poorly maintained 15-25 year old vehicles.
Most of these people can't afford to repair their cars so they bring them to us to repair for free.
I also teach vehicle maintenance classes to help them learn how to maintain their car.
I tell them that a properly maintained car is much cheaper than buying a cheap car every few years because you can't afford to repair the one that's completely worn out.
These low income people require our help to get their cars back on the road, but many of them become better at taking care of their cars.
Some have become pretty good mechanics too and now work with us providing free labor to help others.
But someone who can afford a Porsche should be able to spend the money to maintain their car, or they should sell it and buy something cheaper to maintain.
If you can't afford an IMS replacement, sell the car and buy a Honda.
What's amazing is I know more people personally who have had IMS failures than a Porsche shop in Madrid.
I agree with all you say about maintenance (actually a lot of the cars that I see here running wouldn't be allowed to be driven in EU... in Florida there is not even a yearly technical inspection!!). Believe me... I would doubt that you maintain your cars better than I have done with all that I have owned. Old ones... and also new ones (by the way... I have had old cars much more reliable than brand new ones...
). I work for a well known OEM parts manufacturer by the way 
Because I believe in correct maintenance is why I say that a 996 properly maintained is a really reliable car, IMS included. It is not because I say... They have proved it... But is better to keep saying that if you don't take them apart to inmediatly to change the IMS, you are less than crazy.
01-12-2019, 10:10 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
There are two rationales for changing the IMS of this specific car:
1.) Twelve miles a week on average, which could indicate moisture buildup, corrosion, pitting, etc. due to not being driven that much.
2.) It probably has a single-row bearing.
That said, the bearing might still be perfect. Not changing the IMS - not poking the bear - is a real option, but I prefer that option for dual-row bearings, the later, larger IMS, and for cars that have a lot more miles on them and have proven themselves out there in the wild. Folks that have 60,000+ miles on the original bearing, folks that have tracked their cars, have a lot more time under a lot more stress to have to have been able to withstand a faulty bearing.
But cream puffs, we don’t know. There probably hasn’t been much stress, so a faulty part might have been able to make it to today and not reveal itself.
1.) Twelve miles a week on average, which could indicate moisture buildup, corrosion, pitting, etc. due to not being driven that much.
2.) It probably has a single-row bearing.
That said, the bearing might still be perfect. Not changing the IMS - not poking the bear - is a real option, but I prefer that option for dual-row bearings, the later, larger IMS, and for cars that have a lot more miles on them and have proven themselves out there in the wild. Folks that have 60,000+ miles on the original bearing, folks that have tracked their cars, have a lot more time under a lot more stress to have to have been able to withstand a faulty bearing.
But cream puffs, we don’t know. There probably hasn’t been much stress, so a faulty part might have been able to make it to today and not reveal itself.
01-12-2019, 10:15 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
Hello fellow Porsche enthusiasts!
I've lurked here for years but I recently realized a childhood dream in purchasing my first Porsche... a 2001 996 C4 (seal gray/savannah beige) with 12,288 miles on it. One owner, garaged it's whole life. I just replaced the original rubber with a set of Sumi HTR Z 3's. A PPI at a local Porsche specialist revealed that the water pump is starting to leak so that's going to get resolved soon. Other than that I'm going to drive and enjoy the hell out of it. I look forward to continuously learning and being a part of the community. Thanks for all the info up to this point, I'm going to keep reading and learning.
I've lurked here for years but I recently realized a childhood dream in purchasing my first Porsche... a 2001 996 C4 (seal gray/savannah beige) with 12,288 miles on it. One owner, garaged it's whole life. I just replaced the original rubber with a set of Sumi HTR Z 3's. A PPI at a local Porsche specialist revealed that the water pump is starting to leak so that's going to get resolved soon. Other than that I'm going to drive and enjoy the hell out of it. I look forward to continuously learning and being a part of the community. Thanks for all the info up to this point, I'm going to keep reading and learning.
01-12-2019, 10:41 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
@parris The topic has been beaten to death...I trust the guy that did all the research and invented the fix after doing all the testing before anyone else (even the great Porsche engineers)
The bottom line is a new replacement (or proper rebuild) motor is unaffordable for most people that buy these old Porsche's, so an affordable "solution" is to replace the IMSB before it fails!
Nothing wrong with your opinion but one must do all his own research and make the best decision for their own piece of mind.
Anyone want to talk about "bore scoring"?
The bottom line is a new replacement (or proper rebuild) motor is unaffordable for most people that buy these old Porsche's, so an affordable "solution" is to replace the IMSB before it fails!
Nothing wrong with your opinion but one must do all his own research and make the best decision for their own piece of mind.
Anyone want to talk about "bore scoring"?
Last edited by 808Bill; 01-12-2019 at 11:08 AM.
01-12-2019, 10:55 AM
#36
I hear bore scoring is the "new IMS" in the Porsche world that's affecting even the newer engine platforms. When they bore scoped my cylinders during the pre-qual for the IMS Solution, the cert tech said that my cylinders were showing early signs of scoring, but that I should get many more miles out of them. The scoring wasn't bad enough to disqualify my car for the IMS Solution. But he showed me pictures and explained the problem in great detail. Given the poll I ran a few months ago here on Rennlist, I think most people have made of their minds about the IMS problem and most are having something done about it as a preventive measure. Bore scoring on the other hand, is another "silent killer" that is often misdiagnosed until it's too late. Well at least I've been warned.
01-12-2019, 11:11 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
I hear bore scoring is the "new IMS" in the Porsche world that's affecting even the newer engine platforms. When they bore scoped my cylinders during the pre-qual for the IMS Solution, the cert tech said that my cylinders were showing early signs of scoring, but that I should get many more miles out of them. The scoring wasn't bad enough to disqualify my car for the IMS Solution. But he showed me pictures and explained the problem in great detail. Given the poll I ran a few months ago here on Rennlist, I think most people have made of their minds about the IMS problem and most are having something done about it as a preventive measure. Bore scoring on the other hand, is another "silent killer" that is often misdiagnosed until it's too late. Well at least I've been warned.