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997 Shifter in 996 Impressions

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Old 01-14-2019, 09:33 AM
  #46  
Steve Theodore
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Having just swapped my 996TT shifter to a 997 GT3 shifter yesterday, I think the easiest way to describe the feeling of the shifting post swap is simply 'the way it should have come from the factory'. Meaning, it's not an overwhelming difference, but the slight reduction in throw and slight improvement in shift firmness is just right, leading to a very OEM like experience that improves the overall driving experience.
Old 01-14-2019, 11:37 AM
  #47  
JoeyCapranica
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Maybe someone can help me understand something - To me, the absolute most important thing, with regards to a great driving experience, is a good steering wheel...unless the car has a manual transmission. In that case, the overall shifting dynamics (precision, feel, etc.) are also the absolute most important thing in addition to the steering wheel.

The only things one absolutely has to handle while operating an automobile are the steering wheel and shifter (one does not typically “handle” things with their feet, so pedals are a different topic). For this reason, the vast majority of driving experience comes from steering and shifter feel; if these two things are off, it can totally ruin the whole experience of a car.

So what mods, on a car like a 911 that comes as stock so well-sorted, are “money better spent” than the shifter? Why is it that the automotive enthusiast crowd is so obsessed with having a manual transmission but doesn’t seem to really care about shifter feel?

Compared to everything else on the car, the shifting experience in a 996 is underwhelming. It’s not awful, like an early 2000s VW, for example. But it definitely needs upgrading to fit the character of the car, in my opinion.

I’ve felt the Porsche SSK and it seems to shorten the shifter height and increase shifting effort. That is not a formula for a better shifter. The Numeric shifter seems to be the only one on the market that actually went after producing a shifter that feels (and functions) right, not just a “shorter” throw and increased effort to simulate a “sportier” shift feel.

But I see so many people saying this mod is really pricey and that money could be spent on other mods. Like what? What can one possibly do for $1k to this car that will enhance the overall experience of driving a 996 more than a great shift feel?

All I’ve done so far about getting my 996 to “should’ve-come-that-way-from-the-factory” is a set of $300 lowering springs and the biggest thing that still bothers me about driving the car is the shifter (and I’m the opposite of bothered by driving this car, so that’s saying something). As much as the springs improved the aesthetics, now that I have them I realize I could’ve put that money toward the shifter first and probably been happier (but it was only $300, so **** it).

The first $1k I spend on mods once I’m sure this thing is ready to just be driven and maintained (other than the couple hundred I spent on springs) will be on the shifter and cables from Numeric Racing. Exhaust, coilovers (& other suspension-related components), brakes, seats, interior surface materials, and the stereo (infotainment in general) could all be improved to enhance the overall experience of this car. But to get any of those things any better than what came from the factory would cost thousands.

For $1k, one can completely transform one of the most fundamental actions of operating the vehicle for the better. So, I ask again: what could be purchased for the same money as the Numeric shifter that would make a night and day difference in experiencing the 996?
Old 01-14-2019, 01:14 PM
  #48  
e90steve
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I don't disagree with your logic, but I'd have to drive a car with Numeric beforehand to justify the cost. The various 997 shifter upgrades for the price are an easy buy for most ranging from $100-~$300 and are all an upgrade from stock IMO. The numeric may be the best and possibly by your logic worthy of the $$$ investment. Hard to fork over the money just to try it out, when ultimately it is all personal preference.

If you gave me 1k to spend on a 996 to improve/change the driving experience (Assuming all maintenance is up to date), I would do the following:

Semi Solid Engine Mounts: $200
SSK 996 Factory Shifter: $300
Muffler Replacement or Gundo Hack: $500
For $40 I would throw on the Intake Elbow just for sound.

This would significantly change the experience from the drivers seat. Everything else (assuming your suspension is 100% maintained, engine is 100% maintained, brakes 100% maintained) is perfectly fine.
Old 01-14-2019, 01:40 PM
  #49  
JoeyCapranica
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Originally Posted by e90steve
I don't disagree with your logic, but I'd have to drive a car with Numeric beforehand to justify the cost. The various 997 shifter upgrades for the price are an easy buy for most ranging from $100-~$300 and are all an upgrade from stock IMO. The numeric may be the best and possibly by your logic worthy of the $$$ investment. Hard to fork over the money just to try it out, when ultimately it is all personal preference.

If you gave me 1k to spend on a 996 to improve/change the driving experience (Assuming all maintenance is up to date), I would do the following:

Semi Solid Engine Mounts: $200
SSK 996 Factory Shifter: $300
Muffler Replacement or Gundo Hack: $500
For $40 I would throw on the Intake Elbow just for sound.

This would significantly change the experience from the drivers seat. Everything else (assuming your suspension is 100% maintained, engine is 100% maintained, brakes 100% maintained) is perfectly fine.

$1k is definitely a high price to pay for a trial run without having any way of knowing how it’ll perform/feel, for sure. But I haven’t read a single review of that shifter, for any car it’s been installed onto, being just a slight improvement over any other shifter to which the Numeric unit is being compared. Every review I’ve read has said the difference is night and day. If it’s as good as all those reviews I’ve read says it is, then it’s most definitely worth every bit of $1k.

As for the other mods you mentioned, including the Porsche replacement shifter options, none of those would provide a night and day difference to the experience, separately or even collectively, in my opinion. Maybe for some people the exhaust hack makes a big difference, I suppose. But not for me. Mods like the intake elbow and Gundo Hack don’t really appeal to me. Sound is very important, but I don’t think those mods are worth changing/modifying the stock equipment, especially when irreversible.

Last edited by JoeyCapranica; 01-14-2019 at 01:58 PM.
Old 01-14-2019, 01:46 PM
  #50  
e90steve
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For whatever reason, people who invest to have a product installed on their car always tend to think it's the best. I'm not saying it isn't, but some of it might be people justifying spending 1k on it. Might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I haven't personally driven it to compare. I have gone from 996, to 997, to 997 SSK and can say they all IMO have an incremental improvement (997 standard only very small improvement). However I will say now that I'm completely used to the 997 SSK it feels simply "normal" to me now. If I were to change to numeric I would probably be in awe just for the fact it feels different at this point.
Old 01-14-2019, 01:55 PM
  #51  
dporto
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Originally Posted by JoeyCapranica
$1k is definitely a high price to pay for a trial run without having any way of knowing how it’ll perform/feel, for sure. But I haven’t read a single review of that shifter, for any car it’s been installed onto, being just a slight improvement over any other shifter to which the Numeric unit is being compared. Every review I’ve read has said the difference is night and day. If it’s as good as all those reviews I’ve read says it is, then it’s most definitely worth every bit of $1k.
Also your previous post...Keep your eye on the Numeric website - they run sales on both the shifters and cables fairly often. I paid around $800 for my whole setup (the shifter was a "refurb" with full warantee). It's definitely a night and day difference.
Old 01-14-2019, 02:07 PM
  #52  
JoeyCapranica
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Originally Posted by e90steve
For whatever reason, people who invest to have a product installed on their car always tend to think it's the best. I'm not saying it isn't, but some of it might be people justifying spending 1k on it. Might be the best thing since sliced bread, but I haven't personally driven it to compare. I have gone from 996, to 997, to 997 SSK and can say they all IMO have an incremental improvement (997 standard only very small improvement). However I will say now that I'm completely used to the 997 SSK it feels simply "normal" to me now. If I were to change to numeric I would probably be in awe just for the fact it feels different at this point.
I have read multiple reviews of people who tried the 997 SSK, the 997.2 GT3, and Numeric Racing shifters and said that the NR shifter was night and day different. Not one person has said, “meh, it’s a little better, I guess.” I seriously doubt these guys were saying it to cover up their shame for having foolishly spent so much money on such a tiny improvement. I’m certain that I would’ve seen one example by now of someone who wasn’t floored by how impressive the NR shifter is. I won’t know for sure until I get one myself, but I’ll make this promise now: if it’s not that much of a difference to justify the price, I will have no problem saying so.

Originally Posted by dporto
Also your previous post...Keep your eye on the Numeric website - they run sales on both the shifters and cables fairly often. I paid around $800 for my whole setup (the shifter was a "refurb" with full warantee). It's definitely a night and day difference.
Thank you for the heads up! I’ve read rumors of group buys and discounts, so I’m keeping an eye on it. I had not, however, been informed of a refurb w/warranty option. That would definitely be worth $200 off retail.
Old 01-14-2019, 02:18 PM
  #53  
e90steve
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Originally Posted by JoeyCapranica

I have read multiple reviews of people who tried the 997 SSK, the 997.2 GT3, and Numeric Racing shifters and said that the NR shifter was night and day different. Not one person has said, “meh, it’s a little better, I guess.” I seriously doubt these guys were saying it to cover up their shame for having foolishly spent so much money on such a tiny improvement. I’m certain that I would’ve seen one example by now of someone who wasn’t floored by how impressive the NR shifter is. I won’t know for sure until I get one myself, but I’ll make this promise now: if it’s not that much of a difference to justify the price, I will have no problem saying so.


Like I said, not disagreeing with you. Might be the best thing out there, in fact probably is. Would have to try it to know for sure though.

However I'm discovering there are a few different kinds of Porsche owners in regards to products. You have those who think it's the best because it costs the most, those who know it's the best because they've tried everything else and have landed on the best solution, those who think it's the best because it's what they've bought, and those who think it's the best because it's what they've read on the forums is the best.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:50 PM
  #54  
cds72911
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The Numeric shifter alone isn't $1000. You don't need the numeric cables to get the benefits. I have a Numeric and love it, so I'm biased. I've tried a bunch of others and am one of the people that says it is night and day different.

But, (much to my surprise) the Numeric has its detractors. If you poke around on the GT2/GT3 forum you'll see some people think it is junk and swear by the 996 Cup shifter.

If you want to see if Numeric has any returns, call or email (Faith?). They've always been super responsive and helpful when I've reached out to them. They are active on Rennlist too...

My top driver centric upgrades (assuming the car is already mechanically sound and maintenance up to date): 1) Numeric Shifter 2) Function first shift riser console delete (NLA) 3) Rennline adjustable accelerator pedal 4) OEM GT3 steering wheel 5) Rennline aluminum pedal covers. Adding this stuff to the 996 takes the car to the next level of driving enjoyment.
Old 01-14-2019, 02:54 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by e90steve
However I'm discovering there are a few different kinds of Porsche owners in regards to products. You have those who think it's the best because it costs the most, those who know it's the best because they've tried everything else and have landed on the best solution, those who think it's the best because it's what they've bought, and those who think it's the best because it's what they've read on the forums is the best.
Then you have the vocal people who have never tried a product and are comfortable expressing opinions without ever having touched or used it. Or repeating what they've read but never experienced.

It's an easy trap to fall into, I've done it myself. However, I try my best to stick with giving input on products I've tried or used.
Old 01-14-2019, 03:21 PM
  #56  
JoeyCapranica
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Originally Posted by cds72911
You don't need the numeric cables to get the benefits.
I have tried a lot of shifters on other cars with cables and the bushings on the cables could make or break shifter feel and precision, so I assumed the full effect couldn’t be achieved without both shifter and cables. I just figured I would do it all at once. But maybe I should start with the shifter first in this case as it is a completely new platform for me.
Old 01-14-2019, 03:54 PM
  #57  
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I can't say if it is better with the Numeric cables, I still have a set on the shelf waiting for the '02 to be on the lift to install them, hopefully I'll get around to it before spring. I can say that even with original equipment stock cables, the shifter alone is a night and day difference from any of the other shifters and SSKs I've used on either of my 996'.
Old 01-14-2019, 11:42 PM
  #58  
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I may be in the vast minority but I prefer the standard shift length to a SSK. I have a 997 shifter in my 996 and once up to temp works great. I’ve had a SSK in other cars and test drove a C4S with a short shifter. Seemed unnecessarily tight and not all that positive. I feel you get more leverage with a slightly longer throw, plus the shifter is taller and closer to your hand. Then again I haven’t tried the Numeric so maybe I am missing out.
Old 01-15-2019, 08:53 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Bash Hat
I may be in the vast minority but I prefer the standard shift length to a SSK. I have a 997 shifter in my 996 and once up to temp works great. I’ve had a SSK in other cars and test drove a C4S with a short shifter. Seemed unnecessarily tight and not all that positive. I feel you get more leverage with a slightly longer throw, plus the shifter is taller and closer to your hand. Then again I haven’t tried the Numeric so maybe I am missing out.
I agree with you on the shift length. I have the 997 shifter and feel that the length fits the steering, braking and pedal feel. I have tried the SSK in another 996 and it just did not fit the overall vehicle dynamics (for me). Of course the new 997 shifter was much better than my 16 year old 996 shifter. However, now I am also searching for better shifter feel with the 997 shifter. I am trying the full FF approach (trans inserts, motor mounts and metal shifter bushings). Will report back in the spring...
Old 01-15-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ratchet1025

I agree with you on the shift length. I have the 997 shifter and feel that the length fits the steering, braking and pedal feel. I have tried the SSK in another 996 and it just did not fit the overall vehicle dynamics (for me). Of course the new 997 shifter was much better than my 16 year old 996 shifter. However, now I am also searching for better shifter feel with the 997 shifter. I am trying the full FF approach (trans inserts, motor mounts and metal shifter bushings). Will report back in the spring...
In my case, it wasn't the shift throw so much as the mushy/rubbery feel and gear engagement. The 997 shiftter and the B&M ssk were incrementally "better" (more positive gear engagement) than the stock 996 shifter but still had their shortcomings (very stiff feel especially when cold - once the tranny was warmed up shifting was actually very nice). The Numeric shifter (and cables) are in another league entirely - cold or warm. I've also got new motor mounts and the FF trans mount insert (done way before the Numeric). * I initially installed the Numeric shifter with the stock cables, and it was still MUCH better than the other shifters. The cables made it a little easier/smoother than the stock cables as they're a larger/heavier cable (not sure of the exact size difference but they are substantially larger). Good luck with your testing...


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