Chazcamp

I've wanted a porsche for over a decade but life just now making that a possibility.

I have never owed one and I want a manual car with more "raw" feel, but I'm no expert driver given lack of experience. My research / desires all pointed toward 993 C4s but I'm afraid to go that all in and want to drive this thing most days (will be an extra vehicle though)

I am thus leaning towards 996 C4s and have found what looks like a good example near, 2005 (last few 996) C4s with 60k miles.

Any thoughts or advice before I jump in?

Planning PPI this week. Has original IMS, has wreck reported in first 6 months on life (11/2005) but no signs and man its feels good to a novice!

Triple Black

Post the sales listing (pics and more info on the car) and I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

Mike Murphy

Daily driving any 911 could result in large repairs and maintenance costs, so 993 vs 996 may not prove to show any large difference in running costs.

Also, I would be cautious about buying a car that’s been in an accident. Resale will be tougher, and the price will likely be lower.

wildbilly32

Chaz: I love my 2005 C4S. It has 56k miles, original IMS, manual trans with no reported accidents(for whatever thats worth!) Fun car and better looking than C2, in my opinion. I don't track it...old guy here, but every time I drive it, it makes me smile! Keep in mind these cars can be expensive to maintain without a major failure and they are 12+ years old. I am happy with my choice.

eaks

I bought my 04 C4S to DD all year (winter in Canada as well with a good set of winter tires). I use my truck for work (also work out of town a lot) and the wife and I often take the Wifes car so my DD really only gets like ~7k kms/year (I have a good weather summer car as well). Im on the original IMS (AFAIK) and just plan to do regular maintenance and should I have a major failure I plan an LS3 swap vs rebuilding the M96 engine (Flame on..haha).. Car has been good to me so far and is great to just get out for a drive. I havent got to take it out in the snow and -10 weather we have been having lately but I get back in 8 days and am looking forward to some winter driving in it.

Chazcamp

http://www.triangle-imports.com/VIN/...edium=referral

Fracture

WP0AA29945S620120
2005 Porsche Carrera 4S Coupe
WP0AA29945S620120
Division: PCNA
Commission #: 534000

Prod Month: 07/2004
VIN: WP0AA29945S620120
Price: $89,915.00
Exterior: Black
Interior: Black Full Leather
Warranty Start: December 18, 2004
425 Rear Window Wiper
586 Lumbar Support-Left Seat
680 Bose High End Sound Package
A1 Black
AH Black Full Leather
CCW Belt Outlets B Pillar Alu. Lk
M6A Black Mats - Porsche lettering
P11 Self-Dim Mirrors & Rain Sensor
P74 Xenon Headlamp Package
XSC Porsche Crest in Headrest
Y29 Aluminum/Chrome X71,X70,X54
Z0997 Custom Tailoring

Mike Murphy

I agree. Although a cheap C2 is, well, a lot cheaper.

Triple Black

Looks very nice! A PPI is particularly important given the accident report. The accident report will probably affect resale price, but if you keep the car for a long time that's not so important. My advice would be to replace the IMSB right away if you go ahead with the purchase. It really sucks to lose an engine. IMHO, the Solution is the best option for aftermarket bearing. Impressed that the seller is offering a 6 month warranty - this certainly adds value. I noticed that the ad specifies RWD - the C4S is actually AWD (unless the front drive has been removed).

Mike Murphy

That’s my approach with the IMSB as well. Financially speaking, it’s a better approach. If one were to purchase 100 of these cars and proactively replace the IMSB, they’d spend a lot more money than if they just left it alone and replaced failed engines as they came along.

However, the LS3 versus a replacement used engine hasn’t been settled for me. I suspect I could get a replacement engine a lot cheaper than doing the LS swap, but that’s not a fair comparison when we factor in the power gains of the LS motor. The LS-powered 996 behaves more like a 996 Turbo, whereas a 996 with a replacement flat-6 is still a 996. The difference in upfront cost of the LS is probably worth it.

eaks

Yeah my thoughts as well. I want the extra power and am actually somewhat possibly looking to sell the 996 and get into a 997 turbo.. I do love the 996 though so unless I get exactly what I want for it it will stay. The costs for the LS3 are going to be fairly high (I was quoted between 30-34k cdn for everything.. Shop has done multiple 996 LS3s.. Ive personally seen the progress on a C4 and C4S vert). But I mean if I do this and keep up with regular maintenance the LS3 is pretty solid. And the NA 480bhp would be no joke. Also if there were any issues with this engine its under warranty as well as replacement costs for a brand new LS3 crate engine is <10k.. To me it makes no sense not to go this way if any issues were to come up (I understand the purists as well and that its not designed and it does require some modifications to fit)..

The IMSB is also only one of the many failures of these engines. So you spend the money on the solution and something else could happen.. Just my $0.02...

jllphan

Great looking car and love the color combo. I too had wanted a 911 for many years and with the current prices of the 996 i felt now was a good time. I also wanted a widebody car and after much research and several months of looking, I purchased an 03' C4s at the beginning of September. I'm no source of infinite wisdom, as I was in your shoes just a few months ago, but here are a few observations that might be useful:

1. Before you buy anything, go drive a 996 C2 and a C4s: they are different animals.
One day back in May, my friend gave me his newly purchased 996 C2 Targa for a few days because he's a jerk and knew i would fall in love become compelled to own one. It worked. I didn't have the luxury of spending time with an all-wheel drive 911 before purchasing, but it didn't take long to realize the driving characteristics are very noticeable, and honestly, i prefer the c2 for the quintessential 911 driving experience. Understeer and oversteer are much more pronounced and it's a lot of fun to induce both. The C4s is much more centered and unshakeable, it just goes where you point it and doesn't ask questions. There's no doubt I'd be much quicker around a circuit in a C4s, but I'm not a track guy, so that doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. I don't regret my purchase AT ALL, but the C4s is much more of a "standard" sports car and less of what I always romanticised a 911 to be. If this notion continues, i may remove the awd components of this car and have what i believe to be the ultimate 996 -- rwd, with better looks, brakes, suspension and that dead sexy rear end.

2. Full leather is a must and the car your looking at it has it. If this car falls through, make sure you continue to search for a car with it. My buddy's targa does not and it's a far cheaper looking/feeling interior.... and after all, that's where your going to spend your time looking around.

3. While exhausts are easily fitted on these cars, i really wanted PSE and got it. Love it. Love it. Love it. #becauseracecarlol

4. Now that I own one, I've joined the ranks of being overly paranoid that it's going to blow up at moment. My car has nearly 100k on the clock and as far as i can tell, it's original IMSB. The car is bone dry underneath, pulls like a freight train and a recent oil change shows absolutely zero to be concerned about (no particles of any sort found after dropping the pan, cutting open the filter, etc. etc.), but the M96 motors are just ticking time bombs, at least that's what the internet has to say . The car needed a clutch according to the PPI, so i plan to address the ISMB (amongst other things) soon, and perhaps by paranoia my subside knowing that there are only 28 ways of failure remaining on my M96 engine.

All that to say, the more history you can obtain about a car you're looking to buy, the less paranoid you're likely to become after purchasing.

5. Do you wrench yourself? If so, these cars aren't too costly to own. Sure, there are a number of parts that can go wrong with a 10-15 year old Porsche that will have you digging deep into your pockets but the same could be said for any modern car. In my case, the PPI revealed about 8k worth of needed repairs (a new clutch/IMSB/RMS being half that). But I'm doing it all minus the clutch/IMSB/RMS and it will work out to cost me more like $5k once all is said and done. Couple of examples of what I've done so far: shop quoted coils/plugs at $900 -- i did it for less than $250. The coolant tank had a small leak as was quoted $1100, i did it for less than $200.

I paid $22k and will have closer to $27k by the time I have the car where i need it to be. And I'll have the peace of mind knowing it was all done right. If the car you're looking at is devoid of any needed repairs and you can negotiate a bit and get it closer to $30k out the door, you'll result in a car with far less miles than mine and paying a very small premium for it. My $.02.

Chazcamp

Thanks all, appreciate this input.

The accident does worry me, but who knows what it means (CarFAX says disabling damage, left side with impact from other vehicle, but that could be a flat tire.... The car wasn't even a year old back then, only one other owner since that lease)

I have negotiated to $30k (+/- tax/tags/etc...) I feel its a reasonable deal but hard to know, I think its close enough to pay for PPI and see what it uncovers...

Gbug

I would not pay $30k for this car given the accident history. A quick search on autotrader shows me several C4S's with 55-65k miles for $30-32k. So at $30k you are paying very close to the market value of a non-accident example. I'd want at least another $3k knocked off the price given the accident on the carfax.

Schnell Gelb

"The C4S is not great in snow+ice."
I was corrected by experts here on that issue a long time ago. I thought it would be a great ski-bum car. Nope ! Who new?