Hard Driving on 996's with 100K miles
08-03-2017, 01:51 PM
#1
Racer
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Hard Driving on 996's with 100K miles
Amigo's I was thinking of getting back into Tracking again, but I have a concern I was hoping you could help me with. Both my two 996's have close to or over 100K miles - They both are perfect in/out - no mechanical issues since new - Would it be damaging if I started Tracking again with them? being they are 14..13 years old? All positive comments are welcome. 
08-03-2017, 01:58 PM
#2
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https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-at-track.html
That is about the only thing I can respond with. It's risky tracking a 996 as is. If you can immediately afford rebuilding an engine then go for it. Also depends on how current all the maintenance is, and broken stuff that has been replaced (AOS). Do read up a bit on what others have done for track prep of a 996. Deep sump oil pan with improved baffles, the list goes on and on.
That is about the only thing I can respond with. It's risky tracking a 996 as is. If you can immediately afford rebuilding an engine then go for it. Also depends on how current all the maintenance is, and broken stuff that has been replaced (AOS). Do read up a bit on what others have done for track prep of a 996. Deep sump oil pan with improved baffles, the list goes on and on.
08-03-2017, 01:59 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Any car, new or old, high or low miles, needs to be sensibly prepared for track use based upon the profile of the vehicle. So yes, go ahead and track the He LL out of your 996. Prepare the car appropriately for the level of tracking intensity. Three or four 20 minute sessions at HPDE? Minimal preparation needed, you could do it in a weekend. Serious tracking? You will need to invest some real time and/or $$$.
Brand new corvettes blow up at the track. Some 996s have seen over 25,000 track miles and over 150,000 total miles with no issues. Then they blew up at 165,000 miles. And no, it was not the IMSB.
I think you should be out on the track right now.
Brand new corvettes blow up at the track. Some 996s have seen over 25,000 track miles and over 150,000 total miles with no issues. Then they blew up at 165,000 miles. And no, it was not the IMSB.
I think you should be out on the track right now.
08-03-2017, 02:11 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
I bought my 996 with 115K. It had been a track car for the previous 10 years, so it was well maintained, and ready to go for me. The car was amazing until I messed it up (money-shifted it). I have no doubt that if I had not imploded the motor, it would still be going without issue.
Having said that, as others have said that, if the car is your daily driver (which I assume it is not since you have two 996s), you must be willing to eat the cost of something bad happening.
If you want the track time, but don't want to risk hurting a 996, consider getting an E36 M3. They are not as fast, or as fun, but you can buy one for the same price as a used motor for the 996.
Having said that, as others have said that, if the car is your daily driver (which I assume it is not since you have two 996s), you must be willing to eat the cost of something bad happening.
If you want the track time, but don't want to risk hurting a 996, consider getting an E36 M3. They are not as fast, or as fun, but you can buy one for the same price as a used motor for the 996.
08-03-2017, 02:19 PM
#5
Seems like a lot of M96s have given up the ghost on track in the last couple of years, though many many others have had lots of track time with no adverse side effects (Slakker's 996s come to mind). I'd basically plan on needing an engine rebuild. Just budget for it, drive the crap out of it until the engine goes, and if it does, you'll already have a plan in place. If it doesn't go, then all the better.
The S52 is a pretty robust motor and E36 as a platform has a ton of aftermarket support and interesting track-related mods (the Z3M steering rack swap is a really fun-sounding one). I love that era of BMWs.
The S52 is a pretty robust motor and E36 as a platform has a ton of aftermarket support and interesting track-related mods (the Z3M steering rack swap is a really fun-sounding one). I love that era of BMWs.
08-03-2017, 02:32 PM
#7
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08-03-2017, 04:03 PM
#9
There are lots of threads with lots of opinions on this topic.
My take is simple - you have a well used car with approx 100k miles on it. You want to drive this car on a track with high G loads, high temperatures, high RPMs, etc... Common sense is your friend here. Treat the 996 like you would any car you take on track. Brakes, tires, brake fluid, oil, watch temperatures, coolant, etc...
Do your research on preventative maintenance items. Remember you're running a wet sump M96 engine on track, you want to run an oil designed for this use, and make sure you have a way to reliably keep oil flowing.
I'm up to 91K miles on the 996 - with a lot of those on track.
My take is simple - you have a well used car with approx 100k miles on it. You want to drive this car on a track with high G loads, high temperatures, high RPMs, etc... Common sense is your friend here. Treat the 996 like you would any car you take on track. Brakes, tires, brake fluid, oil, watch temperatures, coolant, etc...
Do your research on preventative maintenance items. Remember you're running a wet sump M96 engine on track, you want to run an oil designed for this use, and make sure you have a way to reliably keep oil flowing.
I'm up to 91K miles on the 996 - with a lot of those on track.
08-03-2017, 04:39 PM
#10
^^ funny but probably a good idea.
The OEM temp management system tops out at 220F so if you truly want to track oil temps you can follow Ahsai's DIY for a separate gauge install. link --> https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mp-sensor.html
I'm pretty risk averse on this type of thing so understand that's my perspective going in. There's been a fair amount of analysis of the deep sumps in the boards of late and it seems certain ones can help with short duration DE events (takes longer to heat the oil with a higher capacity). That benefit becomes a weakness once the oil reaches peak temp as it takes longer to cool, however. And you also have to make sure the pan is resealed with a material that doesn't cause aeration in the oil (there are details in the forum if you search under sump and aeration).
There's a Rennlister in the racing forum that runs Mobil 1 in his m96 engines, but that's with custom dry sump setups. Even he notes that he wouldn't use Mobil 1 when racing a stock, wet sump m96. Which is a pretty strong vote of confidence in the narrative that Jake has shared for years with regard to DT40 street / XP9 track oil programs.
Personally, I plan to do more DE events but not until I have more money set aside for a rebuild. And it'll be with XP9 and ideally an oil temp gauge. With the money I spend on this car, I want to get as many miles as possible
.
Good luck whatever you decide & enjoy-
The OEM temp management system tops out at 220F so if you truly want to track oil temps you can follow Ahsai's DIY for a separate gauge install. link --> https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mp-sensor.html
I'm pretty risk averse on this type of thing so understand that's my perspective going in. There's been a fair amount of analysis of the deep sumps in the boards of late and it seems certain ones can help with short duration DE events (takes longer to heat the oil with a higher capacity). That benefit becomes a weakness once the oil reaches peak temp as it takes longer to cool, however. And you also have to make sure the pan is resealed with a material that doesn't cause aeration in the oil (there are details in the forum if you search under sump and aeration).
There's a Rennlister in the racing forum that runs Mobil 1 in his m96 engines, but that's with custom dry sump setups. Even he notes that he wouldn't use Mobil 1 when racing a stock, wet sump m96. Which is a pretty strong vote of confidence in the narrative that Jake has shared for years with regard to DT40 street / XP9 track oil programs.
Personally, I plan to do more DE events but not until I have more money set aside for a rebuild. And it'll be with XP9 and ideally an oil temp gauge. With the money I spend on this car, I want to get as many miles as possible
.Good luck whatever you decide & enjoy-
08-04-2017, 05:59 AM
#11
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As long as the brakes are maintained, the water pump is fresh, the AOS has been replaced somewhat recently, and you're running XP9 oil, you should be fine.
Cleaning the radiators and inspecting for corrosion on them would be something else I would do.
I think you are at a greater risk for engine failure letting them sit as garage queens over tracking them. Getting the oil up to temp helps clear out all that carbon!
Cleaning the radiators and inspecting for corrosion on them would be something else I would do.
I think you are at a greater risk for engine failure letting them sit as garage queens over tracking them. Getting the oil up to temp helps clear out all that carbon!
08-04-2017, 11:39 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Good Grief!!!
Depending on what you mean by tracking, a bone stock 996 or 986 is fine on the track
If you are just starting out , running street tires (even Re-71's) you are fine with the stock pan and baffles. Flush and bleed your brakes with a better fluid, at least ATE-200, Motul 600 is even better.
Have fresh oil.
If you are more serious and running more advanced run groups, on Hoosers, etc, pulling more G's well you should look into a deep sump and baffle.
There are lots of "weekend racers" running stock M96's without problems.
You could grenade your motor just pulling it out of the garage
Depending on what you mean by tracking, a bone stock 996 or 986 is fine on the track
If you are just starting out , running street tires (even Re-71's) you are fine with the stock pan and baffles. Flush and bleed your brakes with a better fluid, at least ATE-200, Motul 600 is even better.
Have fresh oil.
If you are more serious and running more advanced run groups, on Hoosers, etc, pulling more G's well you should look into a deep sump and baffle.
There are lots of "weekend racers" running stock M96's without problems.
You could grenade your motor just pulling it out of the garage