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Old 09-06-2013 | 11:57 PM
  #16  
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For that money, ( well a bit more) I'll buy a P1.
cheers,
sonny1.
Old 09-07-2013 | 08:33 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by bbs993tt
I thought the sequential turbos were done to lessen lag, but you're saying it didn't?
That was the theory but the reality was that it "felt" really laggy probably a lot to do with the way the second bigger turbo came in... I guess one has to judge it against other Porsche turbos of the era, the 930 and 965 were true lag meisters.
They (Sport Auto) lined the 959 up with the F40 and tuned Porsches from Ruf (the yellow bird whose engine Schmirler designed) and RS Tuning and a couple of other tuned cars, AMG Hammer being one - the two parallel turbo Porsches wiped the floor with the factory cars with the Ruf hitting 211mph - this shootout changed me forever and from that day all I could think of was tuned twin turbo Porsches (The 959 managed 199mph)
Old 09-10-2013 | 06:40 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by shhhzaammm
Why would you mod a 959? Kinda like "blinging up" the crown jewels.

.......and a whole 3 pics in listing for a million dollar car.....must be sellers market.
Originally Posted by XR4Tim
I think way too much was done to this car to command that kind of price: Turbos, suspension, seats, etc. Also, the VIN listed belongs to an '88 Carrera Targa.
The vin# listed is because eBay didn't recognize 959 vin. The vin# listed below WP0ZZZ95ZHS900081 is a 959 vin#.

Sean
Old 09-10-2013 | 07:18 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by shhhzaammm
Why would you mod a 959? Kinda like "blinging up" the crown jewels.

.......and a whole 3 pics in listing for a million dollar car.....must be sellers market.
The engine work needed to be done in order to pass smog in any state at the time Show & Display was drafted. Remember it was passed because of the 959 with the help of Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Ralph Lauren, and Bruce Canepa. At the time Show & Display required current smog regulations in all states set forth by the EPA, not smog requirements from 1988. You try and do that with an almost 20 year old design. How much HP you figure you lose if you don't try and go to the next level? So next level is what we did. Had the 959 stayed in production imagine this as it's final iteration.
These are not grey market like a 993 RS or 993 GT2.

Sean
Old 09-11-2013 | 01:33 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Flat.Six
The engine work needed to be done in order to pass smog in any state at the time Show & Display was drafted. Remember it was passed because of the 959 with the help of Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Ralph Lauren, and Bruce Canepa. At the time Show & Display required current smog regulations in all states set forth by the EPA, not smog requirements from 1988. You try and do that with an almost 20 year old design. How much HP you figure you lose if you don't try and go to the next level? So next level is what we did. Had the 959 stayed in production imagine this as it's final iteration.
These are not grey market like a 993 RS or 993 GT2.

Sean
Good post on the history of show and display, however I must comment that light duty engines are certified on a chassis dyno using an FTP drive cycle. FTP cycle barely touches rated power mostly reproducing part load conditions typical of suburban, city and highway driving, meaning peak power output really doesn't mean much when it comes to emissions regulations. I suspect the real motivation for Canepa in ditching the sequential turbos is that they simply didn't have the knowledge or resources to control them. The smaller turbocharger in a sequentially turbochargerd setup is a restriction for the larger turbo at high speed and loads, depending on turbocharger selection, and in the case of the the 959 it was equipped with a compressor bypass. I imagine they didn't have the resources to develop a control system and calibration for the wastegate and compressor bypasses together. Managing those turbos is not an easy task. All 959s in the US are grey market cars because Porsche 959 was never officially sold in the USA. I know some may frown upon modifying such an icon (for example a rennlist member who imported a 959 to chicago) but i'm not opposed to the canepa modifications and I totally understand them. It's kind of like changing the exhaust out of a 993 to Fisters or upgrading the suspension to PSS9's or 10's. These cars were built a certain way but there are always certain compromises made for the market at large that can be undone.

If I had the means to purchase a 959 myself, I wouldn't obey any show and display law. I'd drive it beyond the mileage limitation without worry. I can't imagine there are people who actually check the mileage. If there is regulation, it would be in vain because I can't imagine there are such a number of show and display cars to be of any environmental or safety significance.

Last edited by uicnick; 09-11-2013 at 01:19 PM.
Old 09-11-2013 | 10:46 AM
  #21  
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There's some confusion here. Show & Display is for stock vehicles that do not meet EPA and DOT requirements, that's why there are such restrictions on driving them. There have been 959s legally in the US under Show & Display since the early '90s. I believe Otis Chandler was the first to legally import one.
Canepa's process legalizes the cars to meet EPA regulations and DOT laws (why Canepa cars have MPH speedometers and are modified to fit current DOT approved tires), so a 959 legalized by Canepa is under no mileage restrictions as I understand it.
Old 09-11-2013 | 01:17 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by XR4Tim
There's some confusion here. Show & Display is for stock vehicles that do not meet EPA and DOT requirements, that's why there are such restrictions on driving them. There have been 959s legally in the US under Show & Display since the early '90s. I believe Otis Chandler was the first to legally import one.
Canepa's process legalizes the cars to meet EPA regulations and DOT laws (why Canepa cars have MPH speedometers and are modified to fit current DOT approved tires), so a 959 legalized by Canepa is under no mileage restrictions as I understand it.
You are correct, Canepa cars could be registered like any other car. I also agree with Mike, the 993 is the better looking car in my opinion. If I had the means, i'd be daily driving this beast.
Old 09-11-2013 | 05:40 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by XR4Tim
There's some confusion here. Show & Display is for stock vehicles that do not meet EPA and DOT requirements, that's why there are such restrictions on driving them. There have been 959s legally in the US under Show & Display since the early '90s. I believe Otis Chandler was the first to legally import one.
Canepa's process legalizes the cars to meet EPA regulations and DOT laws (why Canepa cars have MPH speedometers and are modified to fit current DOT approved tires), so a 959 legalized by Canepa is under no mileage restrictions as I understand it.
Show and Display is for stock vehicles and still have to meet EPA requirements for smog. Not for safety. Unlike a grey market car which requires the safety also.
The 959 is over 25 years old now and other then California does not require smog but did in 1999 when Show and Display passed. The 1st car done under Show and Display was Otis Chandler's, the car was 1st brought in under a Museum exemption and then converted by Canepa so Otis could drive it on the street. It was the Mule for Show and Display and made almost 580hp. It was also an S not a Comfort so no suspension mods.
Old 09-11-2013 | 05:49 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by uicnick
Good post on the history of show and display, however I must comment that light duty engines are certified on a chassis dyno using an FTP drive cycle. FTP cycle barely touches rated power mostly reproducing part load conditions typical of suburban, city and highway driving, meaning peak power output really doesn't mean much when it comes to emissions regulations. I suspect the real motivation for Canepa in ditching the sequential turbos is that they simply didn't have the knowledge or resources to control them. The smaller turbocharger in a sequentially turbochargerd setup is a restriction for the larger turbo at high speed and loads, depending on turbocharger selection, and in the case of the the 959 it was equipped with a compressor bypass. I imagine they didn't have the resources to develop a control system and calibration for the wastegate and compressor bypasses together. Managing those turbos is not an easy task. All 959s in the US are grey market cars because Porsche 959 was never officially sold in the USA. I know some may frown upon modifying such an icon (for example a rennlist member who imported a 959 to chicago) but i'm not opposed to the canepa modifications and I totally understand them. It's kind of like changing the exhaust out of a 993 to Fisters or upgrading the suspension to PSS9's or 10's. These cars were built a certain way but there are always certain compromises made for the market at large that can be undone.

If I had the means to purchase a 959 myself, I wouldn't obey any show and display law. I'd drive it beyond the mileage limitation without worry. I can't imagine there are people who actually check the mileage. If there is regulation, it would be in vain because I can't imagine there are such a number of show and display cars to be of any environmental or safety significance.
All 959's in the US are Show and Display. I apologize 993 Carrera RS is also Show and Display. See attached Government link for Show and Display vehicles.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...52109249,d.cGE
Old 09-11-2013 | 06:02 PM
  #25  
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Ah, it is clear now, that is a good link. The show and display refers to the importation of the vehicle, not the registration.

Originally Posted by Flat.Six
All 959's in the US are Show and Display. I apologize 993 Carrera RS is also Show and Display. See attached Government link for Show and Display vehicles.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...52109249,d.cGE



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