Carrera GT

Agreed. These cars could both be okay (obvious "issues" as already noted in this thread) but the Canepa business has sullied its reputation and its customer service is beyond recovery as far as I'm concerned.

TTKan

I am not sure you are right about this, at least if my experience is any guide. I have had 5 or 6 unsolicited offers on my car North of $100k in the last few months on this forum alone.

AC/911's

I have an Andial 3.8 single plug, one of a couple they did, it's a 97 w/11k miles, wouldn't consider anything south of $110k, to keep Andial's name on most of the records, I had PPI done there & mufflers & short shift from FD installed as well. I would not deal with canepa , but car is north of a $100k for sure.

Carrera GT

Sadly, it's all about the odometer. It's utterly impossible to know what a given car will fetch to an informed buyer without having it on a hoist and inspected by a mechanic with decades of experience in the given example. If the odometer can be verified, that sets the price. Almost no matter the evil and sins underneath, if it can escape the attention of the buyer, the price reflects the odometer.

That said, the sales since the stock market crash in 2008 also show a bias for paint and cabin trim. "Yet another silver over black" seems to do okay (that's what I've got) but much the same car and miles in black paint does better, while green does poorly (even though greens were rare and expensive and can look damn good.) That, to me, says there's still a supply and buyers are still selective, hence prices are, let's say "attenuated."

Andial is still in business and building 3.8's in single and twin plug -- that's just a checkbook line-item. I don't mean to lower this thread to carpet bizarre haggling over shekels, and I don't think it's about the return on investment upon resale, it's about the subjective experience and joy of the given 911 itself.

The real sky-high prices are variously nonsense from the dealers that scavenge around the classifieds, calling private sellers, telling them they've got an Albatross around their neck and then offering to be the good Samaritan to help relieve them of their burden ... only to turn around, gussy up the jalopy and put it on all the Web sites as a unique collector investor opportunity.

As ever, the best of all worlds is to find a long term owner selling privately to an earnest buyer ready to pay a fair price for the given car. It's this lack of connecting private seller with private buyer that allows the dealers to create such appalling disparity in prices offered versus what really transacts in a fair market.

e6tme

^ Great post Carrera GT, well said. I may proceed to haggle over shekels below.

I don't disagree that the market is stronger than ever, but IMO it does not justify some of the exceptionally high prices being asked. There seemed to be a frenzy in the spring, but currently several dealers are sitting on overpriced, low mile cars.

The 9K mile 97 at Canepa for $155K and the 11K mi 97 at RPM for $112K represent the higher end of the speculative market. There are several 15 to 20K mile examples in the mid 90's that have also been sitting. Very nice and unique cars in the 30K mile range are not selling at there high 70s asks.

The aircooled market seems to be going up in general and will probably continue to do so, it just seems that compared to this spring, the market isn't as hot.

A direct example of speculation vs reality is here:
http://www.silverstonemotorcars.com/...-01845/3945428

http://inventory.racperformance.com/...Texas/1107834/

...and the car at RAC has been available for nearly two months.

AC/911's

Andial is NOT "still doing" 3.8 conversions, they haven't done one in quite some time, I spoke to them several times over the last few years, the parts they used were not available, its possible if right parts are located, as far as there builds go, you cant just send them a box & say build it. The market is slow, due to the obameconomy, but low mile TT's are still selling higher & higher every year.

Carrera GT

We'll have to just disagree on this -- Andial is still in business and someone wanting them to build an engine to spec, as ever, will need parts. Finding NOS can be a real challenge. I wouldn't want to discourage folks from approaching them as an engine builder.

A 3.8 turbo should be on everyone's wish list. : )

I think we saw a economy-driven dip circa 2008, but I'd say 993 prices have reverted to a sort of average -- a useful number now is about msrp for very low (<10K) mile cars with no stories. Not bad for a 15 year old mass production car appealing only to a niche of enthusiasts and in relatively good supply.

Marshy

Both excellent points.

Better reason to source your vehicle from a Rennlister and/or fellow enthusiast to try to come to some reasonable consensus on price. The previous owner of my vehicle was both and I'm very pleased with my purchase.

Geoff

AC/911's

Yes, Andial is still in business, but as for as building engines to spec, they went about there conversions (mostly twin plug 3.8, a few 3.6's) a certain way with specific Porsche Motorsports parts & kkk Turbos, they recently told me there doing restorations a few cars right now, if word gets out there doing engines ala carte, I'm sure there phone will start ringing

Carrera GT

That white/red one at RAC is a tad high for nearly 40K miles, but I guess they're hoping to find someone that just has to have a white one and/or red cabin. I'm always looking to find a "no stories" white turbo, but every time I find a white one, there's always a story and I don't think I would want a full-on red cabin to that extent. (Anybody sees a white 993 Turbo for sale, please advise. : )

Overdraft

+1...I could have sold my car - realistically - three times.