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993tt upgrades, smoky turbos and a very happy ending!

 
Old 04-26-2012, 01:49 PM
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Taj
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Default 993tt upgrades, smoky turbos and a very happy ending!

So here is a tale of a 993tt owners desire to upgrade his car, things turning sour, and a happy ending thanks to a company that stood by its work, and was true to its word to the point where overall they have ended up making a loss on my business. Having said that the owner that I dealt with is still as friendly as ever, even having a chat about my recent holiday to india and how it's on his list of places to visit. My specialist Northway also proved again why I use them as opposed to some of the others that people seem to like. Each to their own, as they say, and this is my personal experience and opinion.

The company is CR Turbos of New Milton, Hampshire and this is my tale.

It all started at the end of 2010, when I was in the process of upgrading my 993turbo to the full factory Porsche Motorsport 450PS kit. I had the car two years, the forums are to blame really, with tales of upgrades This involved replacing the K16 turbos with K24 items, a new Porsche ECU, additional oil cooler kit and new twin pipe exhaust tips. Gert at Carnewal still has the kit for 11k euros.

I had sourced all of the parts individually and had come across a pair K24 turbos at a motorsport team in the UK, PLANS Motorsport, who used to run a 993 GT2 and still had some spare parts for sale, 3 turbos, and a manifold. The turbos were Porsche Motorsport items and I snapped them up, even though there was some minor foreign body impeller damage on the cold side to two of them. This is when I first came across CR Turbos, who seemed to be a sizeable organisation offering collection and delivery as part of the service. Their lead times were good so I arranged for a full rebuild of both turbos and replacement of the impellers to be done, at a price that was the lowest I had been quoted anywhere.

The turbos duly arrived and were fitted to my car in Jan 2011. I only did about 500 miles in 2011 for one reason or another, but was still pretty pleased that I had a ROW turbo S spec engine with 450ps up from the original 408. It definitely pulled well, hit 15psi of max boost and I had the peace of mind of it all being approved and tested by Porsche as an upgrade.

So, roll forward to Jan 2012 when I started to notice some smoking at startup from the left hand exhaust, when viewed from behind. This would take 2 mins or so to clear up and I put it down it being a flat six, or maybe i had added a little too much oil, even though im always careful.

Over the next 3 months, it got worse in a big way.

I'm a rennlist fan, and have been on it for years, when I had my 964 and with the 993tt. It's a gold mine of info, where someone somewhere has always already been there and done it before you.

The smoking was only really coming from one of the tailpipes so that pointed to one cylinder bank. I knew that my car already had the 996 oil check inlet valves fitted on the turbos, so the problem was not oil filling the turbos from the oil inlet, therefore it could be coming from the crankcase via the oil sumps under the turbos and filling up the turbo body from there. *The smoking would clear up on idle, but then it would start to smoke as I drove, even scaring old ladies on the side of the road with what must have looked like a scene from james bond.*

I replaced the small oil filter on the car as this was also a possible cause, but to no avail, the problem was exactly the same, even though I had only put an initial 8litres of oil in it. I also had removed and taken a peak in the intercooler which was dry, as well as the turbo inlet pipes which were also dry. So there was no break down of the oil seal on the cold side. I suspected the hot side, but could not face tearing it all apart in a single garage. I was also now worried that my engine might be suffering from a major valve guide or piston ring problem which on these cars is big money and it was time to get the professionals on it.

So with some trepidation I called Northway in Reading, my specialist of 9 years, to have the car booked in as Paul (one of the best techs out there and a genuine nice bloke) said he would be able to diagnose the problem within 90 mins and I would know where i stood.

They also changed out the small filter and thought they had fixed until it started smoking while it was being washed ready for pickup. The car went back on the ramp, and off came the turbo as there was oil residue on the outside of the hot side turbine housing. Paul wanted to also make sure the smoke was not coming from the engine itself as a result of valve or piston wear.

One of the things I love about Northway is that they will use tricks to save time and they pass the savings on which is very honest. *So the turbo was removed with its manifold, leaving the rear bumper and cats in place. This cuts the labour time by 60%, which they passed onto me.*
I also like the fact that it's a low overheads operation, and that Ray, Paul,mMick and the rest of the crew know their stuff WRT air cooled cars.

The turbo had oil contamination on the hot side, and Northway advised that there was nothing wrong with the engine ( thank you god, thank you, thank you). So I contacted CR turbos, fearing the worst, as they could have sidestepped accountability for a number of reasons.*

I spoke to Vince, one of the owners and he arranged collection of the turbo from Northway, saying that he would arrange an inspection and we could discuss how to proceed after that. Again I feared the worst as a supplier could have said anything at this point as to the cause of the fault in the turbo.*

To Vince's credit, we spoke 4 days later and he said they had found a groove/wear on the turbine shaft that had compromised the oil seal on the hot side. He could not explain why or how, but said that at rebuild time, he would like to think that they would have machined it out if it was there.*

He said they had repaired the turbo, sent it back to Northway and that they would pick up the cost of the repair to the turbo. This was good enough right, I mean, most customers would be pleased with that.*

What sets this outfit apart is that without hesitation, he also agreed to pay the parts and labour costs for Northway's diagnosis, removal and refit of the turbo. Suffice to say that CR turbos have made a loss on my business, but their reputation is intact and their credibility cannot be faulted. I received the payment from Vince today which compelled me to write the post.

I am so impressed, and thank you CR turbos and Vince in particular for your exemplary customer service.

Taj.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:57 PM
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Absolutely fantastic customer service all the way around. Nice to see. Maybe the Mayans were wrong and the world isn't coming to an end.

Chad
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:06 PM
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Wow, that is incredible service. There are good guys out there. Thanks for sharing and enjoy!
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:56 PM
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Great post!
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by No HTwo O View Post
Great post!
Prefer this avatar NoHTwo O!
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnie993tt View Post
Prefer this avatar NoHTwo O!
+1 on that!

And yes amazing service, that's def over and above.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnie993tt View Post
Prefer this avatar NoHTwo O!
Originally Posted by Knight View Post
+1 on that!

And yes amazing service, that's def over and above.
Thanks, guys, but I just try to show some Boxster luv, too! LOL!!

I need some new pictures of the whip. I am still using many from Thomas, RIP, the Rennlister I purchased from back in 2009.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:54 PM
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Be Happy!
But were you find the other piece from the 450 PS Kit famous as WLS II ?
ciao from Giorgio
993 TT with WLS II
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:26 AM
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Taj
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Hi Giorgio,
I think you are asking where I got the other parts from. The ecu and oil cooler inc pipes was from a chap in the uk who unfortunately crashed his turbo. The ecu was brand new and unused, as he had a RS Tuning map for his k24 turbos. His username is aircooler I think.

I bought the exhaust twin pipe tips from another rennlister in the US . These were also brand new, and as for the turbos, they were from the Motorsport team in the UK.

That's everything, with the most difficult part to come by being the 450 ecu. I have not seen another one since!

Taj.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:14 PM
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Thank you Taj, I was just curios to know how much did you spend all in all this way and if was cheaper then the original kit.
Because I drove only my 993 TT with 450 kit I would like to know from a direct experienced driver the difference between the 408 and 450 engine, sure the k 24 produce more lag and more power at high revs, but tell me more :-)
ciao
Giorgio
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:37 PM
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great post really restores my opinion of humanity and those in the car business, many miles and smiles to you!
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:08 AM
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In terms of the driving experience, it pulls really well, and the initial lag is there the first time you hit the gas, but once the turbos are spooled up, it should leave a standard 408 car behind. I think the quoted in gear acceleration times expose the lag issue whereas a rolling start, accelerating through the gears to the redline in each gear shows the WLS II kit off in the best light. I have a VDO boost gauge installed in the air vent, and most of the time the boost is at 11psi on full throttle. In demanding stuations where the engine is under load (up hill full throttle from 3000rpm) , i've seen 16psi momentarily which is 1.1bar. I never saw that with the 408 ECU and K16 turbos.

The graph I have attached is from an old post and really shows what you get with this kit. Before 3000, you're marginally worse off. But after 3000rpm, it makes a big difference. The graph also shows only 33 Turbo S cars imported into the UK with this option from the factory, and I would love to know who else has this kit in the UK as I think this is a pretty rare and expensive option.

In terms of cost I saved a huge amount on the price of the kit from Gert. But you get new turbos from him, where as mine are rebuilt.

All in all i'm very pleased.

Taj.

Last edited by Taj; 06-28-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:54 AM
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Thanks Taj,
I have an Italian Porsche magazin testing the 993 turbo S 450 PS with the same graph as you posted
Giorgio
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:48 PM
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insane
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