Change turbos from K16 to K24
10-06-2011, 01:25 PM
#1
Racer
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Change turbos from K16 to K24
If you have a standard 1997 993 turbo and one day need to change turbos and already have a front oilcooler. On top of that you are not a fan of the twin exhaust pipes from the Turbo S. Can Porsche reprogram your engine management chip to work with the K24 or do you have to change chip altogether. Is there anything more to change? Like the intercooler rubber hoses? Are the Turbo S ones reinforced?
Is it an upgrade to change turbo from a drivability point of view? Is the turbo lag something that spoils the experience. Does the lag came later and harder with K24 than K16? I do some trackdays with the car. Recently went to the Nürburgring. At the moment more power there is the least I need. I prefer drivability and feel what level of grip that's available. I am not ready to buy a GT3 just yet. I like the old turbo.
The turbos in my car was changed to new ones just before I bought it. From that point of view there no need to change them again. Just thinking out loud. Any comments. I read some older threads and found some good inputs.
I'am not sure I'd like to put hybrid turbos in the car. I somewhat like to keep it original with OEM parts, except chassi improvements, Pole Position seats and a Heigo half cage. The PP seats and cage is on my priority list If I'm going to do more lap's on the Nürburgring. It is an unforgiving place for driving errors - your own and others.
Is it an upgrade to change turbo from a drivability point of view? Is the turbo lag something that spoils the experience. Does the lag came later and harder with K24 than K16? I do some trackdays with the car. Recently went to the Nürburgring. At the moment more power there is the least I need. I prefer drivability and feel what level of grip that's available. I am not ready to buy a GT3 just yet. I like the old turbo.
The turbos in my car was changed to new ones just before I bought it. From that point of view there no need to change them again. Just thinking out loud. Any comments. I read some older threads and found some good inputs.
I'am not sure I'd like to put hybrid turbos in the car. I somewhat like to keep it original with OEM parts, except chassi improvements, Pole Position seats and a Heigo half cage. The PP seats and cage is on my priority list If I'm going to do more lap's on the Nürburgring. It is an unforgiving place for driving errors - your own and others.
10-06-2011, 01:38 PM
#2
Banned
993TT
I just sent 16's to Protomtive to do 16/16 billet wheels & new programing, it's about $3k & is supposed to be a great upgrade. I also did 710n diverters,new plugs, 5 bar fuel reg,these are good upgrades for future mods
10-06-2011, 03:11 PM
#3
If you have new K16's use those for a while. When you want to go to 24's you will need to add a fuel pressure regulator and have programming done to your current ecu. You will not need to replace the current one. With standard K24's you don't lose much driveability, you will get used to the turbos spooling a little later, a light weight flywheel & better clutch ices that cake nicely.
Learn to drive the thing stock before you start spending lots of $ to make it go faster. More importantly, you will get much more out of upgraded suspension parts and good rubber on your wheels.
Learn to drive the thing stock before you start spending lots of $ to make it go faster. More importantly, you will get much more out of upgraded suspension parts and good rubber on your wheels.
10-06-2011, 04:21 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
With K24's and Porsche ecu tuning you will experience a LOT of lag at lower rpm levels. I had this kit in a previous car. Once they completely spool up they're great, especially on track. I had the ecu reprogrammed in DE by a guy named Ansgar Wiesen who used to do a lot of ecu work for Manthey. The difference was outstanding. He purchased an existing business called VGS in Cologne (http://www.vgs-motorsport.com). If you decided to do the turbos you will need somebody to reprogram the ecu, as Dave pointed out above. And you will need the 5-bar fuel pressure regulator he mentions. This guy is at least on your side of the Atlantic and really knows what he's doing. You'll get the performance you want with reasonable boost levels and without a lot of unacceptable IAT levels. And everything's controlled/protected by a Motronic ecu.
10-06-2011, 07:54 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
I had the same thing done. Did not go with K24s because of the lag issue. The hybrids as you know honestly feel like stock, except better!
10-07-2011, 02:31 PM
#7
Racer
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That's some good advices from all of you.
I have owned the car since 2007 and are now quite familiar with how the car behaves. I don't know exactly what suspension that are on the car or the springs used. It is lower than standard. Something the one of the previous owners did. I set it up like an 993 RS. The car behaves nice on normal tracks, but less good on the Nürburgring. Or more precise some parts of it. The Nürburgring is more like a oneway toll road than a track. It has a lot of curves in different combinations - uphill and downhill. A lot of bumps. A real test for you as a driver and the car.
I used street tires on the Nürburgring. You are not mentaly ready to do a lot of laps in a row as a novice. And the weather changes constantly. Safer with street tires. On more normal trackdays I use r-tires (Toyo R888). The difference is huge when it comes to dry grip.
I have owned the car since 2007 and are now quite familiar with how the car behaves. I don't know exactly what suspension that are on the car or the springs used. It is lower than standard. Something the one of the previous owners did. I set it up like an 993 RS. The car behaves nice on normal tracks, but less good on the Nürburgring. Or more precise some parts of it. The Nürburgring is more like a oneway toll road than a track. It has a lot of curves in different combinations - uphill and downhill. A lot of bumps. A real test for you as a driver and the car.
I used street tires on the Nürburgring. You are not mentaly ready to do a lot of laps in a row as a novice. And the weather changes constantly. Safer with street tires. On more normal trackdays I use r-tires (Toyo R888). The difference is huge when it comes to dry grip.
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10-07-2011, 02:45 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
I drove it in the dry on R888's. Good stuff!
10-07-2011, 06:40 PM
#9
I have a TT with WLS II, I have a chart too with the 408 Hp and 450hp showing very clear the lag of the second unit until 3500 rpm and only after this will the k24 outperform, the k 24 are made to increase power up to 500 hp
You could notice very well the lag like the older turbo and that's why I would not recomended for a track car where power is needed as soon as possible, different situation is on a german autobahn, where you are almost allways in the k24 range power
ciao!
You could notice very well the lag like the older turbo and that's why I would not recomended for a track car where power is needed as soon as possible, different situation is on a german autobahn, where you are almost allways in the k24 range power
ciao!
10-07-2011, 07:16 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
^^ A proper ecu reprogramming will make this lag virtually disappear. Goodwood was my "home track" when I lived in London. Exiting the chicane there with the PMS tuned ecu was a real problem. After reprogramming ... no problem at all. Boost came on much earlier and I was reaching for the gearshift much sooner down the front straight. K24's are really good for track use. With a 5 bar fpr and a proper tune they're good for an honest 480+ hp car. Should be enough for anybody. (cough, cough)
