roarke01

This is a post I didn't want to start.........

As some of you are aware, I have been looking to sell my Arena Red/ Black 96 Twin Turbo. It's a great car, but I had (note the choice of tense) my eye on the new GT3.

Found a serious buyer in the midwest. Nice guy, passionate about 993's and easy to talk with. He flew out, saw the car and was very interested. He asked for a PPI/ Leakdown and I of course agreed. I had a PPI when I bought the car three years ago, but no leakdown (this is my first Porsche and did not know then what I know now). Hindsight is always 20/20 i guess.

The car passed the PPI with flying colors, Jim at Eisenbuds here in Denver described the condition of the car as exceptional. The only thing he could note is that the front brake pads will need replacing at some point. Now, for the bad news. It failed the leakdown test! His guess is that someone missed a shift at some point. I have never tracked or abused the car so it must have been the prior owner. My jaw hit the floor when he gave me the news.

The values from the test: 2% 68% 2% 2% 2% 14%

Kevin rebuilt my turbos a year ago due to some Foreign Object Damage, so the two issues may be related. The mechanic couldn't hear any issue with the engine, and the car has always ran great. In any event, it sounds like I need a top end rebuild. The buyer and I parted company but plan to keep in touch anyway.

But this unfortunate incident really got me thinking on the long drive home from the shop. Do I really want to sell this car? It is drop dead gorgeous and nothing else looks like a 993TT on the road. I even had a photoshoot with Ronnie Renaldi recently - while I was trying to sell it. (As soon as pictures are available, I will post)

Most of the education and knowledge I have gained regarding this car have been acquired by lurking on this site, and I owe all of you my gratitude for sharing your expertise. So, I turn to you for more direct assistance regarding next steps.

So, if you were in my shoes and wanted to keep the car for street use, what would you do?

I have searched the posts here and know that a topend will cost 8-10k, depending on what they find. Who would you recommend to do the work? If possible, I would like to do it locally here in Denver. If no one is local, who would you use?

I have set aside a budget of 20k, so what else would you do while you were in there? I am not looking to create a street monster, but something closer to 500hp would be tempting if it can be done in that range.


Thanks for your help

kaktis993

Hey B., I can honestly say that to some small extent I feel your pain... I'm your serious buyer

It's still agonizing to me how close we were to a deal! All the more so because there simply are no other cars on the market now that have been as impeccably well taken-care of as yours.

Even with the bad news it was extremely difficult to walk away, in the back of my head I still really wanted it to work out. As you mentioned on the phone, I sincerely hope this seemingly ugly turn of events can end up being a blessing in disguise for you.

ScottMellor

Ack! Sorry to hear.
Is it normal to have 68% and no check engine light?
Would not the guy performing the leakdown hear a loud whistling noise pointing to the area of interest?

Bill S.

I just completed a top-end rebuild. I recommend doing it at the dealer (2-year warranty on parts and labor) and having them use Ollie's for the machine work with Ollie's valve guides.

My car now runs great (it's a Ruf Turbo R). The 993TT is such an elegant and compact package, yet its acceleration is right up there with my CGT and F40. I doubt I'll ever sell it. I still love driving it... even after 13 years and 60K+ miles.

Bill S.

It's really hard to find a very clean 993TT (i.e., original paint with little or no chips, scratches or dings). I'd take that over any mechanicals. It's real easy to fix the mechanicals. For $10K you can pretty much get a new engine that will last another 60K+.

Kevin

You have two cylinders that are showing issues. It is pointing towards valve guides and maybe a cylinder to head sealing ring breach. The mechanic should have told you exactly where the leakage was. AT 12% you can hear the air leaking out.. At 68% it is loud. You can pay for more diagnostics and remove the heat exchangers to view the exhaust valves and guides. It will be instantly clear if you have a valve /valve guide issue. I would also examine the ceramic liner ports. Your topend rebuild will jump up in $1800 increments with each replacement head.

If someone missed a shift and bent the valves you will have imprints on your pistons>>usually the exhaust valves..

WHB Porsche

I recommend against going to the dealer, and strongly recommend using an independent, specialty (Porsche) engine builder.

Most dealer service departments don't know crap about air-cooled cars, let alone rebuilding engine (because they never see air-cooled cars or actually rebuild engines).

Bill S.

I agree. I should have mentioned to be sure the mechanic at the dealership has the required experience.

TT Surgeon

Another option would be to reduce the price by 20k and sell it to the buyer, that way everybody is covered.

Acropora

Chris Cervelli is in Colorado last I heard.

gandalfthegray.

Wouldn't a price reduction of $10k be more appropriate? In my understanding this is a $10k or less condition.

If I was the buyer, I would push for this. Sounds like this is all that he has been looking for and this way he can benefit from piece of mind knowing he has a fresh top end rebuild.

No HTwo O

When I was searching for a Turbo (took about 22 months) besides trying to find a great car, I also made sure of two additional key parts to the buying process. I made sure I knew of a great mechanic in the Chicago area (found at least 2 to chose from- Fischer Motors and Perfect Power) and made sure I had a cash reserve of about $12-15K in ready-cash for unseen major maintenance and a future top-end rebuild (plus the "while-you-are-in-there-stuff").

When I bought the car in November it had 33,000 miles. Now has 43,000 miles. I don't expect to need a top-end for a very long time, but the last position I wanted to be in was being car rich and cash poor.

It's not a matter of "if" it needs to be done; rather it's a matter of "when" it needs to be done. For some owners it is 40-60,000 miles, for others it has been well over 100,000 miles.

Either way, I can do it at the drop of the hat, an will have a nice reserve built up to give me many options when the time comes. Plus, I can sleep at night, and feel I'm being somewhat responsible with my toys.

Spartan

Do NOT lower the price.

Fix it properly and then put it back on the market if you decide to sell. If I was looking for a turbo and there was one with a fresh top end done by a reputable shop i'd be ALL over it. Makes that whole "how long until a rebuild" feeling go right out the window. Your car would be at a premium over a similar optioned/mileage car imo

budge96

What I don't understand is "if" and it a reasonably big "if" the leakdown on that cylinder were so severe
your car should have been missing loudly,thats not something you just discover in an indepth review of
engine systems..
What kind of compression numbers did the car produce and is there any possibility of getting a second opinion?
Sometimes carbon lodges in a valve seat and prevents it from seating,what that percentage sounds like
is a bent valve stem or cracked valve,it should be easily discernible,not that hard to hear standing next
to the car,and the car should run crappy too,like on five cylinders..
just a thought,Bert

Kevin

Bert, I don't think that any well known shop won't recheck and redo the leakdown on a 68% hole. I'd roll the engine over and recheck the cylinder. CARBON will not break loose in a leakdown test. Let alone sit on the valve seat with the engine running. You have more risk for carbon on a compression test vs a leakdown test.

Ask to remove the heat exchanger to view the valve and valve seat. You will be able to hear the leak.

Put the car on a dyno, the power will be down with 68% and 12%.