ScottMellor

As someone recently noted to the GOP Staffer who "found" Sarah Palin as a VP candidate :
"Google is not a synonym for research."

bbs993tt

This topic goes way over my head, but isn't it possible that from the 993tt going forward, that those parts (counterweighted cranks, harmonic dampner. 360 degree oiling, tiny rod journals, etc) just weren't necessary? Perhaps new technology and or materials instead? Most of the responses with real life experience seem to suggest that.

Quadcammer

Brian and others, please see the attached thread.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=47218

Pay special attention to posts by Geoffrey. This is not something I googled, but rather information gleaned from those who actually race these cars.


As to your question, are they necessary for the average driver of a 400bhp 993TT? No. The stock engine seems to be ok for the street, as long as you limit the modifications that you do.

That said, the things mentioned (beefy rod journals, oiling every 180 degrees, fully countweighted cranks, etc) are basic high performance parts. The porsche race cars of the time had them, but street cars didn't. The factory engine in my crap wagon mustang had a fully counterweighted forged internal balance crank. Thats in a car that cost less than just the 993TT engine costs.

Just a little disappointed that porsche basically stuck a 993 N/A engine (already with cost cutting measures compared to the 964) with a few modifications for turbo use into the turbo.

Bradford

Quad - Due dilegence prior to buying this car could have saved you much unhappiness? Just observing all your negative posts regarding the 993TT. Hope you ultimately find the car you are looking for.

Quadcammer

Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff required some fairly specialized searching to find, which I'll admit I didn't do. I simply assumed that they would use top notch parts in their $100k cars.

Its not that I'm necessarily unhappy when driving the car, I guess I just expected more from Porsche, given their racing heritage. I'm a bit concerned this engine will self destruct any time I get on the gas.

I'll admit that I fell for their marketing efforts.

pstoppani

What I find interesting in that thread is that the owner of the car mentions in one of his posts that on the previous the day the car ran out of gas on the track in the last session. I also noticed that he runs 93 octane fuel; IMHO that is not wise for track driving.

In my experience, running out of gas in a car with a boosted engine in race conditions is like playing Russian Roulette; sometimes the engine survives, sometimes it does not. If I were a betting man, I would bet that as the car was starting to run out of gas it ran very lean to the point of damaging the engine. Then, the next morning the engine finally gives up the ghost on the first hot lap.

Anyway, it was a good read but does not lead me to believe one needs to be concerned about the motor in typical track driving; assuming you keep the power well under 500HP.

gandalfthegray.

Quadcammer,

I think I understand where you come from on a few of these issues. My nephew has a 97 Toyota Supra Turbo and the engine and trans really is bullet proof. The 2Jza80 motor from Toyota can handle 800 rearwheel HP on all stock internals and the factory Getrag 6-speed can support well over 1000 FT Lbs torque with no mods at all. I wonder why doesn't the Porsche handle this?

I also realize that nobody drag races Porsche's, but partly because of the weak main shaft. I as you, I am afraid to push the car as I can not afford either engine or trans failure. Next Wednesday I will be attending a street legal drags at BIR. I will not be side stepping the clutch though, but rather an easy launch

Having said all that, I did know this before buying a 993TT and I did not buy a 4th Gen Supra.

Norske

I get on mine all the time. Of course I have beefed up internals. Pauter rods, etc. Have not had a lick of problems and am not afraid stomp the pedal I do not abuse the clutch. I like to think I'm not totally stupid.

Quadcammer

It wasn't so much the failure in the OP that I was referencing, but rather references to 993TT rods being the weakest yet, the tiny rod journals, etc.

Certainly a different world. My automotive experience comes from a world where 700rwhp is just the starting point. A set of good quality H-Beam rods holds 850bhp and costs $500. I'm not expecting a Porsche to be able to do this, but the fact that the engine seems barely strong enough for its stock power level is unsettling.

Thats not to say a 993TT is not a good car, but again, based on the racing heritage, that was a surprise.

With beefed up internals, the engine should be fine. But having to beef it up just to survive some track work is a bit uncool.

shanepotter

If ones mindset is filled with caution and concern over breakage or failure every time one drives their car; it lends itself to suggest a move into a car one considers more reliable or less expensive to fix. With cars like these, it is about enjoyment, right? I go wide open throttle.

dbf73

wfo ftw

DM993tt

My car only sees the track. It is borderline dangerous to drive my car on the street. My car has about 10k track miles on it with bigger turbos, 500+hp tune, and has been outstanding. I over-maintain it, but I also beat the snot out of it. The weak links have been IC hoses and intake leaks. Internals are untouched. I would be happy to challenge any 700+hp pony cars at the track. Send em down to NJMP this weekend, I will be onthe track instructing Sat & Sun.

pstoppani

This is complete BS, end of story.

I've tracked mine for 3 years, with power increased to 450+HP without any issues. The level of stress I put on it is the same as racing. There are many others here that have done the same.

Worrying about the engine failing reminds me of worrying about dying in a plane crash when you have a much much higher probability of dying on the drive to and from the airport! You have a much much higher probability of destroying the engine or the car by a mistake that either your or someone else on the track makes.

I bet if you spent as much time finding incidents of people over-revving the motor, or crashing the car, as you've spent finding engine weaknesses, I'm quite sure you will find more of these than you'll find engine failures (that were for sure caused by a part failure rather than a human error).

BTW - My 2003 SVT Cobra Mustang couldn't handle more than 15 minutes of track driving before it went into limp mode. It took a lot of money to make that car half what the 993 Turbo is WRT track driving durability. That was Ford's top dog performance car. Having to spend twice what the car cost to make it track worthy, despite THEIR marketing was truly uncool.

The only things I had to do to the Turbo when I bought it with 32K miles on it to make it track worthy was to replace the shocks and struts and add an oil cooler for hot days (after increasing the power to 450HP; even Porsche supplied the S with more oil cooling so I just matched what they did). Ran great for 3 years until I ran out of talent and missed a shift.

WHB Porsche

Agreed. It seems that there are a sum total of 2 people on this board who are afraid of damaging their cars by driving them.

They're air-cooled Porsches, not Land Rovers!

Quadcammer

the thing could blow up the next time you are on the track. You have absolutely no idea until it happens.

The 03 cobra is a ****box with a decent engine and an overtaxed cooling system. Ford's track car was the GT. I'm not arguing fords are any better. But I'd take the ford's kellog forged fully counterweigted crank over the noodle in the p-car.

I hope your car continues to take all the abuse you give it, but it could literally fail at ANY minute.


oh, do you have a mod list for your 03 cobra? I'm curious what you dropped $70k on?