dealer sold me salvaged Turbo no disclosure
09-21-2009 | 11:25 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 549
Likes: 5
dealer sold me salvaged Turbo no disclosure
I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
09-21-2009 | 11:46 PM
#2
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 1
From: North Texas
First off, sorry to hear about your situation.
Was this the car that had the fenders and hood replaced from an accident involving a median wire?
When I was searching for my turbo (within the last 10 months) , I remember seeing a silver turbo with incredibly low miles for a great price. The seller even disclosed the car's history in the listing. I am not partial to silver, (plus the history) so I passed. The listing was on dupontregistry.com and I remember never seeing the car listed in any other location.
I would recommend looking into the possibility that the dealer purchased this vehicle and then possibly attempted to flip it for a profit.
Armed with the vin, I would try contacting dupontregistry to see if the vehicle was in fact listed with this disclosure.
Best to you on your situation....
Was this the car that had the fenders and hood replaced from an accident involving a median wire?
When I was searching for my turbo (within the last 10 months) , I remember seeing a silver turbo with incredibly low miles for a great price. The seller even disclosed the car's history in the listing. I am not partial to silver, (plus the history) so I passed. The listing was on dupontregistry.com and I remember never seeing the car listed in any other location.
I would recommend looking into the possibility that the dealer purchased this vehicle and then possibly attempted to flip it for a profit.
Armed with the vin, I would try contacting dupontregistry to see if the vehicle was in fact listed with this disclosure.
Best to you on your situation....
09-22-2009 | 12:29 AM
#4
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 2
From: Houston, Texas
Very sorry to hear about this. Scumbags are certainly a dime a dozen. I have no clue what you paid for the car, but I would have ran, not walked, from a 993 TT with 2670 miles at any price south of say $105k. - $110k, actually $120k seems a fair price..
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
Last edited by One of Twenty; 09-22-2009 at 01:35 AM.
09-22-2009 | 12:53 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,274
Likes: 348
From: I should be in TNT for Carnival!
I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
GL.
09-22-2009 | 02:54 AM
#7
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 1
From: Fair Lawn, New Jersey
Saw your post elsewhere as well. I gotta imagine this was the car from Canepa.
Wow. I cant believe times have fallen so hard on him and his business that he'd go that low.
Just such a shame. As these federalized 959s out there, real shame if his name gets chopped to shreds. would , i think not reflect well on him or his legacy as its tied to those 959s.
sorry to hear your woes dude. stick it to him as hard as you can.
Wow. I cant believe times have fallen so hard on him and his business that he'd go that low.
Just such a shame. As these federalized 959s out there, real shame if his name gets chopped to shreds. would , i think not reflect well on him or his legacy as its tied to those 959s.
sorry to hear your woes dude. stick it to him as hard as you can.
I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
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09-22-2009 | 11:00 AM
#8
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,299
Likes: 13
From: Arlington Heights, IL
When I was searching for my turbo (within the last 10 months) , I remember seeing a silver turbo with incredibly low miles for a great price. The seller even disclosed the car's history in the listing. I am not partial to silver, (plus the history) so I passed. The listing was on dupontregistry.com and I remember never seeing the car listed in any other location.
09-22-2009 | 11:23 AM
#9
Pro
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Rocky Mountains
I remember the ad in the Dupont Registry and actually talked to the seller. The ad indicated that the car had hit the median cables on the highway and that damage was limited to the two front fenders. The ad did not state nor did the seller that the car was totaled. I passed when the seller could not provide any additional pictures or the name of the body shop that did the work.
09-22-2009 | 11:41 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 549
Likes: 5
993 tt salvage
to be cleat the seller you refer to in Dupont is NOT who I bought the car from. I bought i from a dealer that bought it from him. The dealer cleaims he was not ware of any damage but every other buyer that contacted the seller was made aware and the price of 55k relfected its history. I think the seller before the DEALER did NOTHING wrong.
09-22-2009 | 11:58 AM
#11
Banned
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 2
From: Houston, Texas
to be cleat the seller you refer to in Dupont is NOT who I bought the car from. I bought i from a dealer that bought it from him. The dealer cleaims he was not ware of any damage but every other buyer that contacted the seller was made aware and the price of 55k relfected its history. I think the seller before the DEALER did NOTHING wrong.
I'm assuming you got this car for less than $55k?
09-22-2009 | 12:42 PM
#12
Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 597
Likes: 1
From: North Texas
to be cleat the seller you refer to in Dupont is NOT who I bought the car from. I bought i from a dealer that bought it from him. The dealer cleaims he was not ware of any damage but every other buyer that contacted the seller was made aware and the price of 55k relfected its history. I think the seller before the DEALER did NOTHING wrong.
I would also recommend to anyone considering purchasing a vehicle a PPI and a carfax check. Due diligence is your job... caveat emptor
What price did you pay for the vehicle?
Last edited by techsis; 09-22-2009 at 12:42 PM. Reason: the
09-22-2009 | 12:47 PM
#13
Race Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,935
Likes: 22
From: Dallas TX
Good luck, you must feel terrible now. And you should have been informed of the tainted title.
Please keep us posted.
09-22-2009 | 01:04 PM
#14
Racer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 272
Likes: 1
I DID A CAR-FAX FOR A CUSTOMER OF MINE A FEW MONTHS AGO ON THIS CAR AND IT HAD ''SALVAGE TITLE'' ALLLLLLLLLLLLL OVER IT IN BIG LETTERS..NEEDLES TO SAY I TALKED HIM OUT OF IT AT ANY PRICE !!!..FIRST OFF, YOU DON'T GET A SALVAGE TITLE ISSUED FOR A WIRE DING !!!! SORRY TO HEAR THIS...PRESS ON !!!
