R2FU

Hi there, I'm looking for thoughts, especially from UK rennlisters...

It's time for an engine rebuilt on my pride and joy '97 TT. It is currently a factory 430bhp model. I need a top end rebuild, turbo overhaul and possibly barrels/pistons (I'll know more when the motor it is out of the car and stripped).

I've been quoted £6 to £9k for a hopefully top quality rebuild to standard spec, depending on precisely what they find when the strip it down.

Once I got over the initial shock that it was time for a rebuilt I realised I bought the car knowing I'd probably face this point at some stage in my ownership, and then my thoughts turned to whether this is the opportunity to warm things up a little.

I don't want to go crazy as I want the car to remain reliable and useable, but I'm really interested in tuning options I can consider that won't bump up the bill too much. If I could break the 500bhp barrier for somewhere around the £10k mark, without turning the car into a laggy hand grenade, I'd be a happy bunny.

Is that realistic? Which packages of upgrades are well proven and will deliver these objectives? Which tuners come highly recommended?

I would really appreciate any experience you guys may have or if my expectations are way off please bring me back down to earth and I'll have to persuade myself to make do with "just" 430bhp!

Thanks in advance!

R2FU

Felix

Been there done that.

What makes you think you need a top-end rebuild and possibly Ps & Cs?

R2FU

Car has been down on power and boost for a while, I've been through all the obvious things with a couple of the well know indie's in the SE and now have the car with Fearnsport at Silverstone who have had a good look over and come up with an initial diagnosis prior to pulling out the engine.

Very interested in your experiences.

Cheers,
R2FU

msw

If I may ask...how many miles on are the car and have you had a leakdown/compression test?

TIA

JBL930

Your loss of power could be down to lots of different things, most cheap (ish) fixes, some more difficult to diagnose than others.
Like has been said you really need a leakdown test to see whether you need a top end job. Your options for going up the power ladder are vast, the cargraphic (RS Tuning) bolt-on upgrades are proven engine dyno tested kits, expensive but no bull**** proper motronic tuning. There are always seamingly cheaper avenues but as always they are not without their hazzards...

burton

Regarding a top-end rebuild, have you monitored your oil consumption?

R2FU

The car has got 90k miles on it. It is leaking oil from between the barrels and heads and by all accounts showing visible signs of losing compression. Andy at Fearnsport is proposing to get the engine out and do a leakdown test on the bench to aid further diagnosis.

I have had an initial conversation with him about potential tuning options and his suggestion is 16/24 hybrid turbos, 200 cell cats and a remap that he thinks should get me around the 500bhp mark. Their reputation seems good but I'm waiting for a price back. Any other things I should be thinking about or options I should be considering?

R2FU

Are those the kits supplied/fitted by Parr in the UK? I think I've seen on other threads your motor is tuned. Can I ask the spec, who did it, your experiences etc? Thanks.

msw

i'm not a mechanic but i don't believe you need to pull the engine to do a leakdown...90K miles seems way premature to have to rebuid imo.

keep us posted.

R2FU

It's pretty clear something reasonably serious is up with the motor - two well regarded UK specialists have both been right through most of the obvious things, boost leaks, all the sensors, diverter valves etc, etc and eliminated those. I have been driving the car with low boost and possibly done further damage as it now appears there are obvious leaks from where barrels and heads meet.

Agree with your point the leakdown could potentially be done in-car. The car is now with a 3rd tech whose reputation is really good. I think his point is the results of a leakdown test are a foregone conclusion that they will indicate problems so he wants to whip the motor straight out and then do a more thorough diagnosis on the bench.

You might ask why I'm on my 3rd specialist - well let's just say I think the first two places, while both being well regarded, were happy to just keep spending my money changing things out without getting any closer to a root cause. The current place seems a lot more professional to me and has honed straight in on a root cause.

JBL930

Mine was a bit of a joint effort, Northway fitted the engine. The engine was bought from a damaged 993tt which had been modified previously, the turbos were shot amongst other bits. After a lot of digging i found out the last people looking after the car were Fearnsport so i used them for the turbos and the mapping, the lads up there are a good bunch, my car is producing good power now and i'm happy with it. If i was to start all over from scratch again i would have gone the route with the cargraphic stuff though, it looks expensive to start with but once you factor in everything it isn't actually that bad, and the stuff is engine dyno tuned so the power levels are the power levels even after the heat sets in. I think a good way to think about is my car well produce a maximum output of 500bhp with the K16/24's and a little over 1.0bar, the only way is down once the heat sets in, probably 450bhp on a really long hard autobahn run??
The RS Tuning kits are tuned with headroom, you will get the 520bhp regardless of how hard you drive it, it will adjust boost, timing and fuel to always put out that figure, in a controlled and properly engineered way. The development and research has been done by them at a massive cost so the kits probably look expensive, but you are buying something properly tested

V

JBL,

The Cargraphic (RS tuning) kit seems very promising, where can I find more details? (e.g exactly what is included, prices, dyno results, lag issues, reilability, etc)?

TIA

JBL930

http://www.cargraphic.co.uk/index.ph...,1052/&start=3

Felix

A few comments in no particular order:

I know of nothing to not recommend Fearnsport but I do question the need to pull the engine to do a leakdown - if the plugs can be changed in-situ then a leakdown test can be done in-situ.

Once a shop pulls the engine it will be difficult for you to take the car elsewhere - it truly will be a case of "in for a penny, in for a pound".

If you have boost issues you would do well to get things like the actuators checked and perhaps the N75 valve replaced. Get a decent boost gauge on the car and see what the boost curve is in 3rd or 4th gear from 2000 rpm to 6800 rpm when there's sustained load on the engine.

90K miles isn't that high - what hard evidence for you have that makes you think it needs a rebuild? Or do you just want a fresh engine?

I suggest you not believe anyone who claims they can get you more than 475 bhp from a set of K16-based turbos without changing cams. Ask me how I know.

911addict

Question: who was the other reputable garage?
You may well need a rebuild but from personal experience I find that many garages diagnose a rebuild prematurely. JZ told me I needed one at 70K, and Fearnsport told a potential buyer not to buy my car because it had an oil leak "and they couldn't tell where it was coming from, so it could be serious". This just shortly after a clutch replacement and strong leakdown test.
And I have stories of other 'reputable' garages, JBL will know what I mean.
Despite all of the above, I ran my car to 92k before selling it, it used less oil than the manual states, I took it on vmax to 170mph, etc. etc.

Just expore all the options before embarking on a costly rebuild, and try to find some more 'reputable' garages.
Good luck.