Intercooler coating
09-25-2007, 03:11 PM
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Intercooler coating
While we would all like to have the megabuck Secan intercooler or hope that new more realistically priced designs prove effective, has anyone tried coating the stock IC with a specialist coating such as Swain's BBE coating mentioned at http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10323 I understand EvoMS uses this on their well-regarded 996tt IC's. Given the seemingly modest price of $125 - 225 from their price sheet, this seems like it'd be worth a shot.
09-25-2007, 06:20 PM
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Interesting idea. I am sure someone has "been there, done that", would be nice to hear results of any tests. I suppose, if anything, it would delay temps for a bit. Negligible?
From the link Doug provided:
"The third type of coating is for heat dissipation. Swain Tech’s BBE™ (Black Body Emitter) heat dissipating coating uses high emissivity materials such as copper oxides, vanadium, and some ceramics that radiate heat from a surface. Applied to the exterior surfaces of
brake rotors, intake manifolds, heads, intercoolers, engine blocks, and many other parts,
this coating gets heat out of a part. The coating is an attractive satin black, functional and very durable."
From the link Doug provided:
"The third type of coating is for heat dissipation. Swain Tech’s BBE™ (Black Body Emitter) heat dissipating coating uses high emissivity materials such as copper oxides, vanadium, and some ceramics that radiate heat from a surface. Applied to the exterior surfaces of
brake rotors, intake manifolds, heads, intercoolers, engine blocks, and many other parts,
this coating gets heat out of a part. The coating is an attractive satin black, functional and very durable."
09-25-2007, 09:28 PM
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That an interesting idea. I have heard very good things about Swain Coatings. However, Aluminum alone dissipates heat pretty damn good, excellent in fact. I wonder if coating it will make it dissipate heat any better?
09-26-2007, 06:37 AM
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AFAIK no-one has done a proper test on one ?
Until someone logs (or watches) IAT at ~180+mph under WOT it is all just talk......
Maybe someone at the upcoming Texas mile could do this but somehow I doubt it will happen, most people just prefer the talk.....
09-26-2007, 09:47 AM
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TB - I was going to ask about this in my original post. Unless one has a spare stock intercooler, testing the coating would require 2 tests spaced apart by at least a couple of weeks. Using your test, if one did the second test at the same ambient temp as the first and otherwise the conditions of the test (speed, boost etc etc) were the same, the results would be meaningful? Short of being able to do 180, what test would give an approximation as to whether an IC or coating was efficacious? Isn't measuring delta T (ambient minus IAT) at some steady state an indication (albeit perhaps not complete or conclusive) of the heat transfer capabilities?
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09-26-2007, 12:37 PM
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Hi Doug, I would first ask why do you need the coating, i.e. what is the application where you feel it might be needed? Are you tracking hard your car, or are you feeling in any way that your intercooler is not up to the task? Are you suffering from performance drop?
As far as coating, I would not expect coating to provide nothing more than a quick run's worth of slightly lower temps, something like the water injection or spray. There are people like Richard Chamberlain on this board that have been struggling with getting a good intercooler for their race car without having to spend a fortune on a Secan, and he has certainly looked at any sort of coating available in the world.
The only solution seems to be a good intercooler. There are a couple of good suppleirs of intercoolers that are beyond all the rest, and those are none of the ones selling bar and plate cores for $2-3k USD, those two suppliers are the same that were used for the GT2 race cars and GT1.
It is not about flow testing on a bench, it is not about "angle" design and it is not about shininess, it is about the material used to build the core and getting the right amount of ducting in there.
As TB says, you need to read the IATs while driving, any other test is not worth much to know intercooler efficiency, you need that percentage temp loss to determine efficiency.
Jussi seems to have had very good results with a stock intercooler despite his high boost, we know that at least the time of a high speed run, or a few shorter runs those ICs are performing well, why change it?
As far as coating, I would not expect coating to provide nothing more than a quick run's worth of slightly lower temps, something like the water injection or spray. There are people like Richard Chamberlain on this board that have been struggling with getting a good intercooler for their race car without having to spend a fortune on a Secan, and he has certainly looked at any sort of coating available in the world.
The only solution seems to be a good intercooler. There are a couple of good suppleirs of intercoolers that are beyond all the rest, and those are none of the ones selling bar and plate cores for $2-3k USD, those two suppliers are the same that were used for the GT2 race cars and GT1.
It is not about flow testing on a bench, it is not about "angle" design and it is not about shininess, it is about the material used to build the core and getting the right amount of ducting in there.
As TB says, you need to read the IATs while driving, any other test is not worth much to know intercooler efficiency, you need that percentage temp loss to determine efficiency.
Jussi seems to have had very good results with a stock intercooler despite his high boost, we know that at least the time of a high speed run, or a few shorter runs those ICs are performing well, why change it?
09-26-2007, 01:02 PM
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Also, consider that there are also newer tricks for drastically lowering IAT's in turbo cars. A water/methanol injection system spraying into the intake track just after of the intercooler has been a very potent addition to many turbo cars in other marques. The amount of heat removed via latent evaporation in the cylinders can provide a great advantage especially in applications where physically larger IC's or IC placement is challlenging.
04-21-2015, 06:19 AM
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Paint it black.
Worked for Mick and Keith
Seriously, Black Body Emissions in this use I think are sort of a buzz term grabbed by salespersons with a strong background in snake oil. You've got a system, let's say an intake manifold, trying to maintain equilibrium between the head its connected to and the air around it in the engine bay. It's going to radiate heat just because the air is usually cooler than the head.
How can a coating help the intake radiate? Well, we know that flat black absorbs energy in just about every visible wavelength so it's not going to help right? A perfect IR reflector might help the intake from picking up ambient heat. Polished aluminum would be at the top of my list. Maybe a clear coat to keep it from oxidizing? Seems to make sense eh? Reflect anything coming in from the outside, best you can do?
But for some reason unknown to me, flat black surfaces radiate heat better than shiny white ones. It doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone can explain it to the rest of us. In the meantime, Keith and Mick had it right; Paint it (flat) black.
Worked for Mick and Keith
Seriously, Black Body Emissions in this use I think are sort of a buzz term grabbed by salespersons with a strong background in snake oil. You've got a system, let's say an intake manifold, trying to maintain equilibrium between the head its connected to and the air around it in the engine bay. It's going to radiate heat just because the air is usually cooler than the head.
How can a coating help the intake radiate? Well, we know that flat black absorbs energy in just about every visible wavelength so it's not going to help right? A perfect IR reflector might help the intake from picking up ambient heat. Polished aluminum would be at the top of my list. Maybe a clear coat to keep it from oxidizing? Seems to make sense eh? Reflect anything coming in from the outside, best you can do?
But for some reason unknown to me, flat black surfaces radiate heat better than shiny white ones. It doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone can explain it to the rest of us. In the meantime, Keith and Mick had it right; Paint it (flat) black.
