993TT Upgrades
11-18-2002, 08:40 PM
#1
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993TT Upgrades
I have been reading on this forum for a while and thought I would post about my car and upgrades.
I purchased my Arena Red / Classic Grey '96 993TT in '98 and have loved every minute of the 25K miles I have put on the car since then. I decided I wanted more power though as it seems you can never have enough!
I am having my 993TT upgraded by swapping the engine with a 730hp monster! I am having the upgrade done at Powerhaus in Arizona. To view information on the engine go to their website and look under used parts / 993TT engine. The car should be ready later this week, after which I am going to fly out to Arizona to take a test drive before having the car shipped back to Michigan. I am also adding a roll bar and lowering the car with Eibach springs to try and improve the handling a bit. I have searched the internet to try and find out as much information on Powerhaus as possible and everything I have read so far has been great. My experience thus far with them has been wonderful, David has been honest and easy to work with.
Any information that anyone here has on my car, powerhaus or anything 993 would be greatly appreciated.
BTW I am also planning on changing my seats for the sport seats if I can find a set in Classic Grey. I would be willing to do a swap or an outright purchase if anyone here has them. I have looked on the classifieds and there are a couple of sets in black, but none in grey.
Take care! Sorry for the long post!
I purchased my Arena Red / Classic Grey '96 993TT in '98 and have loved every minute of the 25K miles I have put on the car since then. I decided I wanted more power though as it seems you can never have enough!
I am having my 993TT upgraded by swapping the engine with a 730hp monster! I am having the upgrade done at Powerhaus in Arizona. To view information on the engine go to their website and look under used parts / 993TT engine. The car should be ready later this week, after which I am going to fly out to Arizona to take a test drive before having the car shipped back to Michigan. I am also adding a roll bar and lowering the car with Eibach springs to try and improve the handling a bit. I have searched the internet to try and find out as much information on Powerhaus as possible and everything I have read so far has been great. My experience thus far with them has been wonderful, David has been honest and easy to work with.
Any information that anyone here has on my car, powerhaus or anything 993 would be greatly appreciated.
BTW I am also planning on changing my seats for the sport seats if I can find a set in Classic Grey. I would be willing to do a swap or an outright purchase if anyone here has them. I have looked on the classifieds and there are a couple of sets in black, but none in grey.
Take care! Sorry for the long post!
11-18-2002, 08:57 PM
#2
I've worked with Powerhaus before on my previous 930. They've been in the business for a very long time. I have never heard any complaints.
When you test the car, can you get a 60-100 MPH or 60-120 MPH time? I'd love to hear how it performs. With that HP, you should see it do 60-120 in less than 7 seconds.
When you test the car, can you get a 60-100 MPH or 60-120 MPH time? I'd love to hear how it performs. With that HP, you should see it do 60-120 in less than 7 seconds.
11-19-2002, 12:16 AM
#3
sounds like a fun project marsman!
730 hp sounds pretty high, especially if you are using pump (91) octane gas. Can you give us a more detailed list of what is being done to your car?
Also, are these the sport seats that you are looking for?
<a href="http://www.cuberootconsulting.com/gallery/album12/img079" target="_blank">
</a>
<a href="http://www.cuberootconsulting.com/gallery/album12/img076" target="_blank">
</a>
I've been thinking of getting GT3 seats.........
Jeff
730 hp sounds pretty high, especially if you are using pump (91) octane gas. Can you give us a more detailed list of what is being done to your car?
Also, are these the sport seats that you are looking for?
<a href="http://www.cuberootconsulting.com/gallery/album12/img079" target="_blank">
</a>
<a href="http://www.cuberootconsulting.com/gallery/album12/img076" target="_blank">
</a>
I've been thinking of getting GT3 seats.........
Jeff
11-19-2002, 01:44 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Jeff 993TT:
<strong>sounds like a fun project marsman!
730 hp sounds pretty high, especially if you are using pump (91) octane gas. Can you give us a more detailed list of what is being done to your car?
Also, are these the sport seats that you are looking for?
I've been thinking of getting GT3 seats.........
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jeff,
It only runs 730Hp on racing fuel 110 Octane, there is a 6 position switch that sets the boost.
Setting 1 = .8 bar
Setting 2 = .9 bar
Setting 3 = 1.0 bar
Setting 4 = 1.2 bar
Setting 5 = 1.3 bar
Setting 6 = 1.4 bar
You can only use the first three setting on pump gas and the last three on racing fuel. I have a dyno sheet of the engine on setting 1 and setting 6. On the lowest setting in 605hp and 605ft/lb's of torque.
The engine has been completely reworked and is using Factory 7.5 to 1 Pistons, Forged Crank, Extra rings or something to handle the extra boost, Upgraded Garrett turbo's, twin spark plug ignition, individual throttle bodies, monster intercooler & it is running a Zytec full engine management system. The clutch (GT2) and billet flywheel have also been upgraded to handle the extra power. I also know it is running a different cam and has titanium valves and new springs.
As you can probably tell I am not real familiar with a lot of the items on the list, I am simply restating a lot of what I have been told. I have read a bunch of your posts and you seem very knowledgeable, if you think there is anything that I should make sure was done to protect the engine / drivetrain I am very interested in your opinion.
On a different note, it looks like from the pictures of the seats that they are what I am looking for, are those the sport seats that was available on the 993's? If so I am interested in purchasing them.
Thanks!
<strong>sounds like a fun project marsman!
730 hp sounds pretty high, especially if you are using pump (91) octane gas. Can you give us a more detailed list of what is being done to your car?
Also, are these the sport seats that you are looking for?
I've been thinking of getting GT3 seats.........
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jeff,
It only runs 730Hp on racing fuel 110 Octane, there is a 6 position switch that sets the boost.
Setting 1 = .8 bar
Setting 2 = .9 bar
Setting 3 = 1.0 bar
Setting 4 = 1.2 bar
Setting 5 = 1.3 bar
Setting 6 = 1.4 bar
You can only use the first three setting on pump gas and the last three on racing fuel. I have a dyno sheet of the engine on setting 1 and setting 6. On the lowest setting in 605hp and 605ft/lb's of torque.
The engine has been completely reworked and is using Factory 7.5 to 1 Pistons, Forged Crank, Extra rings or something to handle the extra boost, Upgraded Garrett turbo's, twin spark plug ignition, individual throttle bodies, monster intercooler & it is running a Zytec full engine management system. The clutch (GT2) and billet flywheel have also been upgraded to handle the extra power. I also know it is running a different cam and has titanium valves and new springs.
As you can probably tell I am not real familiar with a lot of the items on the list, I am simply restating a lot of what I have been told. I have read a bunch of your posts and you seem very knowledgeable, if you think there is anything that I should make sure was done to protect the engine / drivetrain I am very interested in your opinion.
On a different note, it looks like from the pictures of the seats that they are what I am looking for, are those the sport seats that was available on the 993's? If so I am interested in purchasing them.
Thanks!
11-19-2002, 01:57 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Bill S.:
<strong>I've worked with Powerhaus before on my previous 930. They've been in the business for a very long time. I have never heard any complaints.
When you test the car, can you get a 60-100 MPH or 60-120 MPH time? I'd love to hear how it performs. With that HP, you should see it do 60-120 in less than 7 seconds.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bill,
Thanks for the info on Powerhaus, that is pretty much what I have heard from everyone I have talked to. I upgraded my computer back in '98 to provide 1 bar of boost and I had great service back then and it only gets better.
I will test the 60-120mph time and report back on what it does. I hope it is less than 7 seconds as I have read about others with less horsepower getting in the 6's.
Take care!
<strong>I've worked with Powerhaus before on my previous 930. They've been in the business for a very long time. I have never heard any complaints.
When you test the car, can you get a 60-100 MPH or 60-120 MPH time? I'd love to hear how it performs. With that HP, you should see it do 60-120 in less than 7 seconds.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bill,
Thanks for the info on Powerhaus, that is pretty much what I have heard from everyone I have talked to. I upgraded my computer back in '98 to provide 1 bar of boost and I had great service back then and it only gets better.
I will test the 60-120mph time and report back on what it does. I hope it is less than 7 seconds as I have read about others with less horsepower getting in the 6's.
Take care!
11-19-2002, 02:19 AM
#6
Lifetime Rennlist Member
I would strogly suggest you not use the Eibach lowering springs. They are too soft for the shocks and your car will not handle as well as it does now with the M030. Especially with that much power, you will experience a lot of unwanted movement.
With that much HP you should go with a serious system. PSS-9 or equivalent.
With that much HP you should go with a serious system. PSS-9 or equivalent.
11-19-2002, 03:12 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Mark D - TT Alumni:
<strong>I would strogly suggest you not use the Eibach lowering springs. They are too soft for the shocks and your car will not handle as well as it does now with the M030. Especially with that much power, you will experience a lot of unwanted movement.
With that much HP you should go with a serious system. PSS-9 or equivalent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that the Eibachs were softer. The one thing I didn't like about the handling was how soft the suspension was stock. I have added a coil-over suspension on some of my other cars and have been very happy (once they were corner balanced). I will look into adding the PSS-9 here locally. After your post I did a search and read some good stuff about this suspension, it looks like what I need. I will track this car some, and it sounds like the Eibachs won't make me very happy.
<strong>I would strogly suggest you not use the Eibach lowering springs. They are too soft for the shocks and your car will not handle as well as it does now with the M030. Especially with that much power, you will experience a lot of unwanted movement.
With that much HP you should go with a serious system. PSS-9 or equivalent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that the Eibachs were softer. The one thing I didn't like about the handling was how soft the suspension was stock. I have added a coil-over suspension on some of my other cars and have been very happy (once they were corner balanced). I will look into adding the PSS-9 here locally. After your post I did a search and read some good stuff about this suspension, it looks like what I need. I will track this car some, and it sounds like the Eibachs won't make me very happy.
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11-19-2002, 04:55 AM
#8
For PSS9's (and coilovers) you could do worse than checking with <a href="http://www.carnewal.com" target="_blank">www.carnewal.com</a> - get in touch with Gert. There are many people on Rennlist who are very happy customers.
11-19-2002, 07:26 AM
#9
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themarsman
A couple of points after a quick glance at your proposed engine on the Powerhaus site. Firstly the fan pictured suggests that the base engine is a N/A 3.6 Carrera motor not a 993tt motor. Secondly, that dyno power curve is pretty limp low down - this motor really flys above 5000rpm, but up to there it looks pretty laggy -not wanting to be negative about it - it is maybe what you are looking for
A couple of points after a quick glance at your proposed engine on the Powerhaus site. Firstly the fan pictured suggests that the base engine is a N/A 3.6 Carrera motor not a 993tt motor. Secondly, that dyno power curve is pretty limp low down - this motor really flys above 5000rpm, but up to there it looks pretty laggy -not wanting to be negative about it - it is maybe what you are looking for
11-19-2002, 01:28 PM
#10
[quote]Originally posted by themarsman:
<strong>
On a different note, it looks like from the pictures of the seats that they are what I am looking for, are those the sport seats that was available on the 993's? If so I am interested in purchasing them.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, they are the factory sport seats in grey. I was thinking of selling them, but on second thought, I think that I'll keep them instead. I really like the look and feel of them.
I think that the GT3 seats would be a great complement to the engine mods that you have done.
Your list of mods sounds very impressive. With that kind of HP the engine must get pretty hot. What kind of oil cooling do you have?
Jeff
<strong>
On a different note, it looks like from the pictures of the seats that they are what I am looking for, are those the sport seats that was available on the 993's? If so I am interested in purchasing them.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, they are the factory sport seats in grey. I was thinking of selling them, but on second thought, I think that I'll keep them instead. I really like the look and feel of them.
I think that the GT3 seats would be a great complement to the engine mods that you have done.Your list of mods sounds very impressive. With that kind of HP the engine must get pretty hot. What kind of oil cooling do you have?
Jeff
11-20-2002, 01:45 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by TB993tt:
<strong>themarsman
A couple of points after a quick glance at your proposed engine on the Powerhaus site. Firstly the fan pictured suggests that the base engine is a N/A 3.6 Carrera motor not a 993tt motor. Secondly, that dyno power curve is pretty limp low down - this motor really flys above 5000rpm, but up to there it looks pretty laggy -not wanting to be negative about it - it is maybe what you are looking for </strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting that the motor might of started out as a N/A 3.6 motor, if all of the internals have been changed out are there any other negatives with this news? Are there differences between the 3.6 TT Block and the 3.6 N/A Block?
I looked over the dyno sheets pretty closely and also looked at the stock dyno pulls. In setting six, the new engine puts out 250 ft/lbs. at 2500 rpm, my stock car put out 175 ft/lbs. On the lowest setting the torque comes in earlier putting out over 300 ft/lbs @ 2500 rpm and makes its maximum torque at 5000rpm. I think this will be a pretty drivable motor down low, but all hell will break loose at about 4,500rpm. Since the redline has been raised to 7K, I think shifting at redline will keep it in its powerband. One of the things I missed with my '94 Turbo was the kick that it provided at about 4,500 rpm. I hope I don't eat my words, I will let you know if it feels weak down low Monday. I am flying out to Arizona to test drive the car before I take delivery.
<strong>themarsman
A couple of points after a quick glance at your proposed engine on the Powerhaus site. Firstly the fan pictured suggests that the base engine is a N/A 3.6 Carrera motor not a 993tt motor. Secondly, that dyno power curve is pretty limp low down - this motor really flys above 5000rpm, but up to there it looks pretty laggy -not wanting to be negative about it - it is maybe what you are looking for
</strong><hr></blockquote>Interesting that the motor might of started out as a N/A 3.6 motor, if all of the internals have been changed out are there any other negatives with this news? Are there differences between the 3.6 TT Block and the 3.6 N/A Block?
I looked over the dyno sheets pretty closely and also looked at the stock dyno pulls. In setting six, the new engine puts out 250 ft/lbs. at 2500 rpm, my stock car put out 175 ft/lbs. On the lowest setting the torque comes in earlier putting out over 300 ft/lbs @ 2500 rpm and makes its maximum torque at 5000rpm. I think this will be a pretty drivable motor down low, but all hell will break loose at about 4,500rpm. Since the redline has been raised to 7K, I think shifting at redline will keep it in its powerband. One of the things I missed with my '94 Turbo was the kick that it provided at about 4,500 rpm. I hope I don't eat my words, I will let you know if it feels weak down low Monday. I am flying out to Arizona to test drive the car before I take delivery.
11-20-2002, 01:49 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Jeff 993TT:
<strong>
Yes, they are the factory sport seats in grey. I was thinking of selling them, but on second thought, I think that I'll keep them instead. I really like the look and feel of them. I think that the GT3 seats would be a great complement to the engine mods that you have done.
Your list of mods sounds very impressive. With that kind of HP the engine must get pretty hot. What kind of oil cooling do you have?
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jeff,
I know they are putting in an additional oil cooler, I am not sure which one they are using. Before deciding to go with this engine, I talked to a guy in New York that has the same engine. He has about 20K miles on it and it is his everyday car. He said the week before I called he was stuck in stop and go traffic for 1.5 hours on the Ohio turnpike and had no trouble with the car overheating. He did say it ran pretty warm, but cooled down as soon as he started moving again.
Too bad about your seats, do you know where I can see some pictures of the GT3 seats?
Thanks!
<strong>
Yes, they are the factory sport seats in grey. I was thinking of selling them, but on second thought, I think that I'll keep them instead. I really like the look and feel of them.
I think that the GT3 seats would be a great complement to the engine mods that you have done.Your list of mods sounds very impressive. With that kind of HP the engine must get pretty hot. What kind of oil cooling do you have?
Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jeff,
I know they are putting in an additional oil cooler, I am not sure which one they are using. Before deciding to go with this engine, I talked to a guy in New York that has the same engine. He has about 20K miles on it and it is his everyday car. He said the week before I called he was stuck in stop and go traffic for 1.5 hours on the Ohio turnpike and had no trouble with the car overheating. He did say it ran pretty warm, but cooled down as soon as he started moving again.
Too bad about your seats, do you know where I can see some pictures of the GT3 seats?
Thanks!
11-20-2002, 01:50 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Christer:
<strong>For PSS9's (and coilovers) you could do worse than checking with <a href="http://www.carnewal.com" target="_blank">www.carnewal.com</a> - get in touch with Gert. There are many people on Rennlist who are very happy customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I will give them a call and see what kind of deal they will give me. Thanks for the link.
<strong>For PSS9's (and coilovers) you could do worse than checking with <a href="http://www.carnewal.com" target="_blank">www.carnewal.com</a> - get in touch with Gert. There are many people on Rennlist who are very happy customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I will give them a call and see what kind of deal they will give me. Thanks for the link.
11-20-2002, 06:40 AM
#14
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themarsman
Differences between 993tt and Carrera 3.6 engines - An experienced shop would be able to tell you. In his book, Paul Frere lists the main differences as follows:
conrods reinforced at crank end, piston intrusion by 5mm to reduce head gasket strainair circulation between the cylinder fins is optimised by reduced fin thickness, exhaust valves are hollow and cooled by natrium (??), cooling fan is driven at 1.8 times crank speed (instead of 1.6).
I don't understand how on the lowest boost setting the motor will produce more torque at 2500rpm than at the highest setting - all other parameters remaining the same, why should the lower boost setting get going quicker than the higher boost setting ?? Could be unreliable dyno figures at low revs ?
That kick in the back will be big <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Differences between 993tt and Carrera 3.6 engines - An experienced shop would be able to tell you. In his book, Paul Frere lists the main differences as follows:
conrods reinforced at crank end, piston intrusion by 5mm to reduce head gasket strainair circulation between the cylinder fins is optimised by reduced fin thickness, exhaust valves are hollow and cooled by natrium (??), cooling fan is driven at 1.8 times crank speed (instead of 1.6).
I don't understand how on the lowest boost setting the motor will produce more torque at 2500rpm than at the highest setting - all other parameters remaining the same, why should the lower boost setting get going quicker than the higher boost setting ?? Could be unreliable dyno figures at low revs ?
That kick in the back will be big <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
11-20-2002, 09:57 AM
#15
Rennlist Lifetime Member
There are difference in the case as the oil sump on a 993 case has an opening on the face with the turbo sump in the motor mount. It is a bored hole that can easily be opened. The heads and cylinders are also situated so that the sealing surface is below the main compression strike, thus helping out with leakage from boost. The crank in a 964 is far different from the 993 in regard to one is tapered and never balanced, hence the huge dampener pulley and the other is true. Rods are different. There are some integrity difference between the two. When we can we use a 993 base plant and build on that. Other small issues as valves, fan, PS pump, mounts, etc are slightly different.