md11plt

I have decided I need Bilstein HD’s with M030 springs. Gert has a “kit” available which includes all the parts I need as well as a rear sway bar. Why do I need a rear sway bar? Can I not use the one I have? Why do I not need a front sway bar? If I lower the front, will my stock front sway bar work? Has anyone installed this “kit” specifically and how were the results? Is this the best place to get this stuff? I notice the shocks he has have more threads to lower the ride height. Is this common? Do I need the extra threads? There are a lot of steep driveways and such here, so I will not be “slammin” my car to the ground.

Thanks,

Tom

Oh yea, you guys rule!

JJayB

Don't let me talk you out of buying any porsche parts, because by being on this forum you are already addicted to porsche "crack". Over the past ten years have had over five suspension systems and have driven at least a dozen other 993tt with various suspension mods. My suggestions will go unheeded becasue you will buy the suspension based upon price or what someone tells you, not what you really need. The "needs" part comes into focus when you do round two of your suspension upgrade. Sorry, if I seem harsh but thats the plain truth, unless you are one out of a hundred and can be totally objective.
Nevertheless, if I were a totally objective and I ask myself, (I'm not) how will I use this car. Street, track, daily driver, whatever. The M030 is an excellent set up in its stock configuation. It will handle the occasional track day and up to 450 hp. If you do 90/10 daily driver/track this will work fine. The more important part is the installation. Some shops make money on parts, you arrive with parts and they are honored to install them. NOT! It's something like taking a steak to a restraunt and asking them to cook it for you. You might also find out what the return policy is on the parts if your not buying it from the shop installing it.
You might want to do a little research on the forum, as there is a ton of information on suspension.
Basicly, if you change on thing you need all the parts to work together. Stiffer shocks with stock springs doesn't work well. Sway bars fine tune the set up etc. Keep asking questions becasue we've all been there before.

md11plt

Jimmy,

Not harsh at all. In fact, I have searched the forums and that is why I have decided upon the HDs and M030 instead of PSS9. The car will not be tracked. I just want a bit lower and nicer ride than I have now.

My questions have more to do with how and why re the sway bars than if. The price difference is really negligible.

As for the shop, I plan on doing a DIY so I'll cook my own steak!

911/Q45

I want some concrete evidence of that rehabilitation Jim! The factory front bar is very stout and can be retained on all but the most hard core setups. The factory rear bar(US) was purposely made too small to cut down on oversteer, lawsuits and fun. The ride height was designed to be one inch lower than US and that "Euro" height seems to be an ideal compromise between performance and street usability. I've been running the Ruf setup for about 50K miles and have been very happy with it. It includes 4 adjustable(height and stiffness) Bilstein shock/spring struts tuned to Ruf specs and a replacement rear bar that is adjustable. I'm about 50/50% street and track use and find the setup works great both places, perhaps a shade more street oriented. The ride is better than stock and the handling definitely so.

md11plt

911,

Thanks for the info. What exactly do the "drop links" do and will I need new ones on the front if I lower the car to ROW? I thought the sway bar thing had more to do with the shape of the bar in relation to the suspension, not necessarily the stiffness.

Sorry if this is overly stupid, but I missed out on suspension 101.

David in LA

The improvement in handling from switching sway bars is more pronounce with the rear sway bar than the front. If you are unsure whether you want to spend the extra money, a good compromise is to drill additional holes in your stock rear sway bars and move the droplinks up to stiffen the rear sway...this can be done independent of your spring/shock change.

tlark

I'm doing this from memory of two years ago, but I believe the front sways are the same size from US to ROW, so no new drop links are needed in the front.

Drop links are simply the pick-up points that help the transfer some of the suspension travel (multi-link/993) and energy through the sway bar. Think of it as maintaining the structural integrity of a foundation thats designed to move yet not be so rigid as not to allow some flexibility. New drop links are a must on the rears on ROW.

911/Q45

The shape of the bar is usually dependent on where there is room for it. The stiffness is determined by 3 things: the bar thickness, the bar composition and the length of the arm. Putting several holes on the arm allows the length(hence the stiffness) to be adjusted. The drop links connect the end of the arm to the suspension. If both sides of the suspension move up and down at the same time, the bar just pivots in the bushings that attach it to the frame and there is no effect. If one side of the car moves more than the other, then the bar flexes and resists the force trying to sway the body. More stiffness, less sway. You can do the same thing with stiffer springs, but the effect on the ride is much harsher, as they are always stiff instead of just when the body tries to tip. No free ride though, as the sway bar also resists if one tire hits a bump and the other doesn't. General rule: stiffer rear(either through springs or sway bar) more oversteer, stiffer front more understeer.

md11plt

Got it. But why then, Master, if I need new drop links on the rear if I lower to ROW, do I not need them on the front? (this will all make sense when I have parts in hand I'm sure) Also, I have seen a lot of lowering springs out there presumably for use with the stock suspension. I have never seen Gemballa, for instance, say I need new drop links if I am going to use their springs.

Motorcycles are so much easier!

911/Q45

The hook is not the springs but the sway bar. If you stick with the factory sway bar, you don't need new drop links for either end. There is even a factory "euro" rear bar available that will make your car pretty neutral without any change in links. If you go to an adjustable rear bar, then you need the funny curved link to clear the lower control arm.

md11plt

Got it!

Thanks for the help.

Tom