TB993tt

Victor
Nice cars.
Can you tell us a bit more about the "Porsche Motorsports Intercooler" - The photo is a little blurred but it looks just like a stock I/C to me ? Thanks

Autobahn

Does anybody have any experience with Bailey diverter valves?
Are they comparable to the Evos?

vrus

John H.: Thanks. It is pretty fast. I am looking for a little more now. I am working on the next level which will be 3.8L twin plug, racing cams, bigger turbos, FVD headers. Maybe over the winter as I want to drive it a little this summer.

Just sent out the wheels to get them polished. They look amazing. Should have them mounted by Friday.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TB993tt:
<strong>Victor
Nice cars.
Can you tell us a bit more about the "Porsche Motorsports Intercooler" - The photo is a little blurred but it looks just like a stock I/C to me ? Thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for the compliment. Yes. That picture was taken when I first got the car and it had the stock exhaust and intercooler on it.

The Porsche Motorsports intercooler looks like the FVD cooler but is not anodized black.

I purchased it through a friend of mine who tunes Porsches in Scarborough (Solaroli Motorsports).

If any of you have seen a Guards Red 993 Twin Turbo at any of the Porsche events with tinted windows, that is Al's car. Pushing 858RWHP verified on a 4wheel dyno.

TB993tt

Posted by vrus:
The Porsche Motorsports intercooler looks like the FVD cooler but is not anodized black.

I purchased it through a friend of mine who tunes Porsches in Scarborough (Solaroli Motorsports).

If any of you have seen a Guards Red 993 Twin Turbo at any of the Porsche events with tinted windows, that is Al's car. Pushing 858RWHP verified on a 4wheel dyno

Does your "Porsche Motorsports" I/C have any part numbers on it ? As far as I was aware, Porsche only (had) made 3 types, the stock one, the first GT2 race one and the Secan EVO one. I know Cargraphic sold the intercooler (some not painted) manufactured by TTP (also marketed by FVD) and described it as a "Motorsports" intercooler - Is this the one you have ?

viperbob

Victor,

Your friend Al, did you really mean 858 RWHP? This would equate to 1000+ HP at the flywheel. Watching the escapades of a gentleman on the 996TT board that has spent enough money on his car to buy at least 2 GT2s, I see he is only (only ?) producing 750 HP at the flywheel.

Could you please elaborate how this would be possible? Without 2.0 bar of boost on a one time handgranade motor, I don't see how you could get 858 HP at the flywheel

Thanks

vrus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Does your "Porsche Motorsports" I/C have any part numbers on it ? As far as I was aware, Porsche only (had) made 3 types, the stock one, the first GT2 race one and the Secan EVO one. I know Cargraphic sold the intercooler (some not painted) manufactured by TTP (also marketed by FVD) and described it as a "Motorsports" intercooler - Is this the one you have ?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No. There are no inscriptions on it. It is actually off the car right now. I am running the stock one at this time.

I want to get an intercooler that has the Andial Temperature sensors on it.

I will speak with Al and find out if in fact it is a different cooler. I know Al is THE distributor for FVD in Canada (His name is on the inside cover of the catalogue). For all I know he may just have called it a Motorsports Intercooler when in fact it was the FVD one. Not sure.

vrus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>Victor,

Your friend Al, did you really mean 858 RWHP? This would equate to 1000+ HP at the flywheel. Watching the escapades of a gentleman on the 996TT board that has spent enough money on his car to buy at least 2 GT2s, I see he is only (only ?) producing 750 HP at the flywheel.

Could you please elaborate how this would be possible? Without 2.0 bar of boost on a one time handgranade motor, I don't see how you could get 858 HP at the flywheel

Thanks</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yes. That was not a misprint. In its current tune, it is producing 858 RWHP @ 1.7BAR boost on 94 octane fuel. He dynoed it in Florida I believe.

If any of you ever want to build fast street cars, let me know and I'll connect you with the best tuner in the business.

His engine is 3.8L, twin plug with all the goodies. I have been in the car several times (although he wont let me drive it.). :-( It is sick fast. Fast enough to take the blood out of your head during acceleration. :-)

Al's red car is actually my old 1997 C4S that I converted to turbo (which is on my website). When I sold it to him he ripped the motor out, and created this new version.

Al is an engineer by trade. He was actually the person who developed those 4-valve (Currently non-existent) heads for the Porsche. If you dig up an old Excellence issue (late 80s I think) you will see the article.

You will also find some new technology hitting the streets. Al developed an Adiabatic engine which is currently patented and this technology will find itself in some pretty quick street cars in the near future. He extracts 350hp per liter out of his motors using this technology.

If any of you live in Ontario, Canada and want to go for the ride of your life, let me know and we can meet up.

My 96 turbo was pushing around 600hp, has been driven almost every day for the past 2 years and the motor has never come apart. I dont do anything but put gas and oil in it. That speaks for the reliability of his creations.

My next motor will be what he has in his car.

viperbob

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by vrus:
<strong>
Yes. That was not a misprint. In its current tune, it is producing 858 RWHP @ 1.7BAR boost on 94 octane fuel. He dynoed it in Florida I believe.

His engine is 3.8L, twin plug with all the goodies.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sorry Victor, can't buy it. Does anyone else know of a 1000+ HP Porsche running on pump gas? Not to mention where would you get replacements for every piece of running gear that would handle that kind of power. Maybe if I factor in the US - Canada exchange rate, 1 HP/US = 1.4 HP/CAN then I could see it.

vrus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by vrus:
<strong>
Yes. That was not a misprint. In its current tune, it is producing 858 RWHP @ 1.7BAR boost on 94 octane fuel. He dynoed it in Florida I believe.

His engine is 3.8L, twin plug with all the goodies.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sorry Victor, can't buy it. Does anyone else know of a 1000+ HP Porsche running on pump gas? Not to mention where would you get replacements for every piece of running gear that would handle that kind of power. Maybe if I factor in the US - Canada exchange rate, 1 HP/US = 1.4 HP/CAN then I could see it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Funny...

I know.. 99% of the people that I talk to about it are skeptical. Once they get a ride and see it in person, the mouths close. But, if you run in any circles where people attend the Porsche Events, I am sure they will be able to tell you about a Red Twin Turbo that laps just about everything on the track.

If you know the Mosport track here in Ontario, you'll know the back straight away... The car hits 295km/h up the back straight before braking for the next corner. Figure out what it takes to reach that speed in that distance.

If you are ever in the area, look me up and I'll show you first hand.

When I get home I'll scan and post the patent documents which explain the technology that has been developed and you can have a read for yourself.

Oh, by the way, when the technology was invented it was proven on a 3.2L Porsche Engine which is now mounted in his green/purple race car (I think it based on a 930 frame). It is developing 1,330hp at the flywheel. :-)

biiig-hp

vrus. Can you tell me what m.p.h. this 858r.w.h.p. car runs down the 1/4 mile? this will give us a good idea on the real hp of this thing.

biiig-hp

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by vrus:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by viperbob:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by vrus:
[qb]
...

I know.. 99% of the people that I talk to about it are skeptical. Once they get a ride and see it in person, the mouths close. :-)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think that by the time you break 500 hp at the wheels the seat of the pants dyno counts for nothing.

vrus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think that by the time you break 500 hp at the wheels the seat of the pants dyno counts for nothing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Trust me. You can tell the difference.

The car was not built for 1/4mile racing. He builds cars for road racing. It is meant to tear up the track on road courses.

His car is supposed to participate in the SuperTuner shootout so you might see it in print.

vrus

Just finished scanning in the patent documents that will explain how this technology works.

If any of you ever want to build some fast street cars, he is the man to do it. Tell him Victor sent you.

<a href="http://members.rogers.com/vicrus2/AdiabaticEngine/Adiabatic.htm" target="_blank">http://members.rogers.com/vicrus2/AdiabaticEngine/Adiabatic.htm</a>

viperbob

OK, let's look at this. Essentially here is what he is trying to do.

<a href="http://www.chem.ufl.edu/classes/4411L/bowers/gamma/Gamma.htm" target="_blank">http://www.chem.ufl.edu/classes/4411L/bowers/gamma/Gamma.htm</a>

When you have pressure built up in a container and release some of the pressure, what's left gets cooler (anyone ever use a spray can?) So build pressure in the intake at all times, open the intake valve (adding volume / relieving pressure) and this cools the charge. So how is this much different at peak power with a current pressurized turbo application? We aren't running high enough compression ratios.

From what I read, by increasing the compression ratio and over boosting (relative to what we think of today) this Adiabatic process will take place which will in turn allow increase thermal efficiency (lower exhaust temps and reduced fuel comsumption) and since the compressed charge is cooler, but this high boosts is achievable on pump gas.

Did I summarize correctly? What I do not understand relative to this model is 1) the amount of time for the process to take place the time frames are short in an engine for this thermo process to occur, 2) When the pressure drop stops, there is a rebound effect on temp that will increase the charge temp seeking equilibrium and I would think cause instant ignition on the charge. 3) we make a BIG explosion in the combustion chamber that has to go somewhere in the form of heat / energy - I do not see how this process will then convert that heat energy in engine HP.

So, I would love to see an engine as described in th patent actually on the street.

vrus

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>OK, let's look at this. Essentially here is what he is trying to do.

<a href="http://www.chem.ufl.edu/classes/4411L/bowers/gamma/Gamma.htm" target="_blank">http://www.chem.ufl.edu/classes/4411L/bowers/gamma/Gamma.htm</a>

When you have pressure built up in a container and release some of the pressure, what's left gets cooler (anyone ever use a spray can?) So build pressure in the intake at all times, open the intake valve (adding volume / relieving pressure) and this cools the charge. So how is this much different at peak power with a current pressurized turbo application? We aren't running high enough compression ratios.

From what I read, by increasing the compression ratio and over boosting (relative to what we think of today) this Adiabatic process will take place which will in turn allow increase thermal efficiency (lower exhaust temps and reduced fuel comsumption) and since the compressed charge is cooler, but this high boosts is achievable on pump gas.

Did I summarize correctly? What I do not understand relative to this model is 1) the amount of time for the process to take place the time frames are short in an engine for this thermo process to occur, 2) When the pressure drop stops, there is a rebound effect on temp that will increase the charge temp seeking equilibrium and I would think cause instant ignition on the charge. 3) we make a BIG explosion in the combustion chamber that has to go somewhere in the form of heat / energy - I do not see how this process will then convert that heat energy in engine HP.

So, I would love to see an engine as described in th patent actually on the street.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Well said viperbob. Nice summary indeed. Yes, from what I have learned you actually need a high static compression to start with. His race car is at 10.2:1 and runs 2BAR (not 100% sure about the boost pressure). I myself am not very knowledgeable when it comes to Thermodynamics. I am in computers by trade, and just love fast cars. I came across Al 3 years ago and we have been friends ever since.

He did a small demonstration for me with his race car: He started the engine and let it idle to come up to operating temperature. With the engine running, he went over and started revving the motor to 4,000rpm. He did it a few times. He then asked me to put my hand on the block. It was COLD to the touch. It is quite amazing actually.

I forgot to mention that these adiabatic engines have NO COOLING system whatsoever. The Porsche engine fan is removed completely on his race car.

You really have to see it to believe it. But remember, if you ever make it up to Ontario, let me know and I'll show it to you in person.