Carrera GT

It's for sale by Ken Goode, recently owned by someone else and originally sold in Florida. It has significant modifications from s-car-go and Rob King says the car is superb, "100 point" car in his words. There's a story, though. It has low compression on at least two cylinders (120lb on the leak-down test with 160lb on other cylinders) so I'm hesitant.

If you of the car, please help.

The work by s-car-go (www.scargoracing.com) include
F50 front brakes
F40 rear brakes
GT2 turbos
ecu reprogrammed
intake plenum somehow modified for flow, I guess
M030 ROW suspension (Monroe)

Price is $80K but negotiable in light of engine problems

I have a TON of questions:

What are the possible causes of the lost compression?
Is it "just" cracked rings?
What can I do to check the rest of the engine, the turbos, etc.? Is this warranted?
What's the approximate cost to replace rings in all cylinders?
Am I insane?

Cheers,

Adam
ps. Finding a 993 Twin Turbo is hard work! Any of you owners, just get out of that comfy chair, go into the garage and hug your car!

acastell

Adam, I sent you a private message....

LeeR

My 1996 993TT had valve job at 49000 miles. Cost $9000 at dealer. Included new exhaust valves (old ones make great but expensive paperweights), valve guides, lifters, and lots of misc parts. Prior to work car tested with good compression, but 3 cylinders out of spec on leakdown test.

Whole thing was precipitated by CEL (Cash Evaporation Light) coming on twice with misfire code. Car ran strong prior to valve job,including DE at Willow Springs shortly before CEL, without problems, so who knows if I got bent over? Engine is stock, so no excess stress/heat from aftermarket improvements.

As Johnny Cochran would say "If it don't pass the leakdown, it's time to get outta town!" My 2 cents. Good Luck Looking.

Carrera GT

<strong>My 1996 993TT had valve job at 49000 miles. Cost $9000 at dealer. </strong> Right. Ouch. Well, that's something I'd rather avoid. At the end of the day, if I budget on $6K for rings and it turns into $10K for valves and pistons, that's something I'm prepared to do, but if it's an overboost situation or the engine isnt' stable or it's in need of significant work, sleeves and balancing and and and, then, thanks, but no thanks. But how can I get a clear enough crystal ball to see those things ahead on the road?
I've thought about getting someone other than s-car-go (since they did the original work) to inspect the car and get a quote on fixing the compression problems (maybe Racer's Group?) but I just don't know either company.
Any candid, anecdotal reports (feel free to email me in absolute confidentiality) will be well appreciated _before_ I get in over my head, I mean, over my wallet ...

Cheers,

Carrera GT

More info.
The car was apparently set up to race SCCA (it has a battery isolator switch under the front hood/bonnet/trunk-lid with a wire that can be draped out through the engine to make it possible to isolate the battery without lifting the hood.
It has a half cage bolted into the rear seatbelt and floor mounts (no drilling) with the rear seats removed -- is it okay to register this in California without reverting to "stock" and what insurance company will cover this car without hassles if/when I make a claim?
The engine has stock exhaust with hi-flo (9 cell?) cats and "GT2" (apparently K24 turbos) and the ECU remapped/reprogrammed (without using a Unichip) and runs strong -- much stronger than a stock Turbo.

Thoughts?

Advice?

Anybody?

Anybody?

Bueller?

Bueller?

...

Cheers,

viperbob

Adam,

The owner spent a lot of money on this car ($20 -25K from what you describe). Now does that add $20K to the value of the car? Generally not. IF anything, it may add a few thousand dollars of current pricing, but ONLY to the right buyer. Dealers won't touch it. So the market is much smaller to sell a car like this. Then take into account that it has a BIG $$$ mechanical problem.

I always mod my cars extensively. I do it because I enjoy the car more when done. When I have sold my cars I have lost almost my entire investment in the mods just to be able to sell it. And all of my cars were in PERFECT condition.

So the car has been raced probably a lot and hard. Assume the worst on the engine (cracked rings) when negotitating. If it turns out better like exhaust valves, than great but the owner isn't going to give you a guarantee on the problem or the cost to fix. I would price the car by taking current market pricing, add a couple of thousand more for the mods, and then DEDUCT at least $10K (assuming no other issues come to light in a PPI). The problem is, this is the kind of car that can have other problems just waiting. If you are willing to live with this and have a lot of additional cash, then buy it. If not, then wait and find the right car for you.

Check out the 96 993TT on this site ( <a href="http://www.europeanlocators.com" target="_blank">www.europeanlocators.com</a> ). I almost bought it myself. PSS9s, sway bars, etc. No engine mods, and do you need F50 brakes? If you start with a platform like this, you can add the mods you want and save money and piece of mind.

Good luck.

Carrera GT

I did take interest in that '96 with the PSS9 and RS sways -- very nice (and expensive) kit -- but the miles and the price and the suggestion of its history (from the modifications) discouraged me from it.

Agreed, the 993 just doesn't need F50 brakes, but they do look nice and will put up with occasional track days without going through pads quite so frequently ... all rationalisations, I know.

Thanks for the sanity check.

Jim Thomas

so many of these cars are garage queens why buy one with stories and stories.

Carrera GT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Jim Thomas:
<strong>so many of these cars are garage queens why buy one with stories and stories.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You're right, I know. I think it could be a great car, but the asking price isn't viable for the known costs just to get it back to condition.

And Jim, if you get tired of that boring old '97 C2S, well, I'll do you a favour and take it off your hands ... and what does it mean when an M5 goes "A**" ?

Anir

Carrera GT,

Personally, I would steer clear of any 993TT with engine mods, unless you are buying it for a track car. It's probably led a hard life.

It's a buyer's market out there.

ScottMellor

I'm in disagrement with the good doctor on this one. I bought my car already modded out because I was too cheap to pull out perfectly good parts and throw them away to put in high performance parts. I drove a stock car and my car back to back when I was looking, and that pretty much sealed my fate.
I KNOW my car had a "Hard Life" as a DE/track car. (I spent the first week of ownership picking marbles out of the most intriguing places up under the car)
That being said, I've put 15,000 miles on her in the first year as my daily driver. I quit driving on the freeway after about a month with her and take back roads all the time, making sure I rev to 5500+ as often as possible. The car virtually quit burning oil after the 30,000 service, and hasn't cost me anything outside of normal maintenance and some more mods. (I blame Rennlist for the latter)
Also, now that I am attending DE's in an effort to learn how to drive her, it's just a matter of slapping in the harnesses, bleeding the brakes and I'm good to go.

Anir

Scott,

As well as our cars are engineered, I don't doubt that you still got a great car. However, any engine that puts out signficantly more hp will likely live a shorter life, no?

That's why all of my mods (to date) have focused on suspension, seats, and safety. I doubt I'll do anything to the engine, but do plan to continue blowing bucks on track time and driving schools. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

ScottMellor

Anir,

ScottMellor

Anir,
Of course you are right. When I was shopping, I turned down a Charlie Sheen owned car with a reported 600hp for that very reason, besides which they wanted 100K for it. (Not to mention, what a hard life the interior of that car must have had, if you know what I mean).

Mr Michael B

Looks like your going to pass on this car, but...

Terminology flaw here:

"It has low compression on at least two cylinders (120lb on the leak-down test with 160lb on other cylinders)..."

"Leak down" and "compression test" are two different things. Try to keep them straight.

A leak down number gives the percent of pressure lost out of the cylinder when you add 100 PSI to the cylinder being tested... Like 5% leak, or even 10%.

A Compression test gives the actual pressures in each cylinder, like 120lb or 160lb when the cylinder being tested is "cranked over".

Sounds to me like you have compression test data 'eh?

Chances are if you had a leak down test performed it would be a 25% loss in those 120lb holes from when comparing 160 - 120lbs cylinders.

BTW... I did a leak down test on a 3.3 with a broken ring... It had 70% leak... Guess what, it needed a new piston & a new cylinder to correctly repair it. Food for thought.

There is your tech session for the day.