For the Ruf'ers and other High HP 993TT guys
10-28-2006, 05:25 PM
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For the Ruf'ers and other High HP 993TT guys
hey guys I was speaking with the mechanic who built the soon to be mine(via sandy alomar jr)993 TT that I am picking up in a few weeks.
I called to ask him what kind of work has been performed and what to expect performance-wise from the car.
He informed me that the car has approx 600hp, very streetable etc. etc but since he didn't have the receipts and he built it in the late 90's, a bit foggy on some specs (k16/k24/gt1/hybrid turbos was my question) and said it has either a full 993 GT2 transmission assembly and clutch or 993 GT2 clutch and custom gear ratios. and that it has a stack of bills for the work way higher than the price I'm paying- which he was a bit jealous about.
what I do know and he was very clear about was that the car has an extra long first gear- redline at 65mph. and that the car has a shorter run through the remaining gears- topping out at 172 or 175 depending on tire height and wheel size. he said it's hard to actually find roads and tracks in the US to actually go any faster than 180 in any car so it's better to have more acceleration and flexibility from 60-130 which is why he built it that way.
so my question is to Ruf'ers lik steve, track guys like jean, and the gents from the UK- what transmission do I have in there?
how long is first gear mph wise in the turbo R, the ctr2, and some of the other superstar cars on the board?
don't worry when i get the receipts and the car I'll post a million pics and any dyno numbers, speed results, etc
I called to ask him what kind of work has been performed and what to expect performance-wise from the car.
He informed me that the car has approx 600hp, very streetable etc. etc but since he didn't have the receipts and he built it in the late 90's, a bit foggy on some specs (k16/k24/gt1/hybrid turbos was my question) and said it has either a full 993 GT2 transmission assembly and clutch or 993 GT2 clutch and custom gear ratios. and that it has a stack of bills for the work way higher than the price I'm paying- which he was a bit jealous about.
what I do know and he was very clear about was that the car has an extra long first gear- redline at 65mph. and that the car has a shorter run through the remaining gears- topping out at 172 or 175 depending on tire height and wheel size. he said it's hard to actually find roads and tracks in the US to actually go any faster than 180 in any car so it's better to have more acceleration and flexibility from 60-130 which is why he built it that way.
so my question is to Ruf'ers lik steve, track guys like jean, and the gents from the UK- what transmission do I have in there?
how long is first gear mph wise in the turbo R, the ctr2, and some of the other superstar cars on the board?
don't worry when i get the receipts and the car I'll post a million pics and any dyno numbers, speed results, etc
10-28-2006, 05:39 PM
#2
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CJ,
I stole this chart from the "torque" thread. Notice that the CTR gearbox with its very long 1st gear and taller tires, still only gets 48mph from first. Your 1st gear much be more like a stock 993TT 2nd gear, which tops out at 67mph. Now, with 600HP on tap, once you get the car moving, that would be sweet, saving that nasty 1st to 2nd gear shift for a higher speed when you won't lose so much momentum.
It sounds like you will have a very close ratio gearbox with the other gears being so much shorter. This may be a bit of overkill with a car with so much torque and very broad RPM sweet spot. Close ratio gearboxes are especially useful on very peaky engines. They are also nice for track use when you can always find the perfect gear ratio to pull you out of a corner.
You car sounds fabulous. Don't be lumping my anemic 490HP Ruf Turbo R into your stratospheric performance numbers. Dang.... can't wait to hear some 1st hand details when you finally get that baby. And pictures... don't forget the pictures, or you'll be drummed off this forum!
I stole this chart from the "torque" thread. Notice that the CTR gearbox with its very long 1st gear and taller tires, still only gets 48mph from first. Your 1st gear much be more like a stock 993TT 2nd gear, which tops out at 67mph. Now, with 600HP on tap, once you get the car moving, that would be sweet, saving that nasty 1st to 2nd gear shift for a higher speed when you won't lose so much momentum.
It sounds like you will have a very close ratio gearbox with the other gears being so much shorter. This may be a bit of overkill with a car with so much torque and very broad RPM sweet spot. Close ratio gearboxes are especially useful on very peaky engines. They are also nice for track use when you can always find the perfect gear ratio to pull you out of a corner.
You car sounds fabulous. Don't be lumping my anemic 490HP Ruf Turbo R into your stratospheric performance numbers. Dang.... can't wait to hear some 1st hand details when you finally get that baby. And pictures... don't forget the pictures, or you'll be drummed off this forum!
10-28-2006, 06:29 PM
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thanks steve- the mechanic said it's can be a 10 second 1/4 miler with an aggressive launch...don't think I'm going to try that til i get used to the engine. guess I'll be asking for some gps testing equipment for my birthday next month!
looking at the chart- i remember he was talking about taking off the first gear or changing the main shaft or something so that's probably the case with the second gear now being first- that could be a first time for the forum, right?
I told him I was thinking about selling my c2s and he informed me- "you're gonna drive the TT and say to yourself - Holy s@#$ this thing is fast- and you will fall out of love with your 993S instantly. "
ouch.
what i will probably do is bubble wrap up the 993s for the winter and drive the turbo recreationally and the mercedes around town.
more than anything I hope that it gives me a chance to get used to the high HP so i don't get overwhelmed by the gt3 at the track next year
looking at the chart- i remember he was talking about taking off the first gear or changing the main shaft or something so that's probably the case with the second gear now being first- that could be a first time for the forum, right?
I told him I was thinking about selling my c2s and he informed me- "you're gonna drive the TT and say to yourself - Holy s@#$ this thing is fast- and you will fall out of love with your 993S instantly. "
ouch.
what i will probably do is bubble wrap up the 993s for the winter and drive the turbo recreationally and the mercedes around town.
more than anything I hope that it gives me a chance to get used to the high HP so i don't get overwhelmed by the gt3 at the track next year
10-28-2006, 06:57 PM
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PPI???????
Hey Mr.C.J. Ichiban ,
Since you are in Dallas have you thought about the Ruf group local to you? I would not dream of buying what you have described without a PPI..what better place than Ruf?
Cheers
R
Since you are in Dallas have you thought about the Ruf group local to you? I would not dream of buying what you have described without a PPI..what better place than Ruf?
Cheers
R
10-28-2006, 07:30 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
CJ,
Kevin (Ima2nr) is doing a close ratio gearbox on his Turbo R. You guys should compare notes. With enough dollars, you can pretty much set the gearbox up with any ratios you might dream of. In the old 901 gearbox days (there... I've just dated myself again), 2nd gear was part of the mainshaft. To change 2nd gear to anther ratio. we needed to get a 904 main shaft which allowed the gear to be replaced. This may still be true today. When in my racing days, I had two complete gearboxes... a "long gearbox for the Riverside long course, and a short box for Riverside short courses and Willow Springs. The short box had the 904 shaft and a 3rd gear that was only one "gearset letter" higher than the long box 2nd gear. What a sweet setup for a 2.7L, 290HP, 2000 lb car.
Roland offers sound advice... buddy or no, you need to know what your are getting. An independent inspection is very important.
Kevin (Ima2nr) is doing a close ratio gearbox on his Turbo R. You guys should compare notes. With enough dollars, you can pretty much set the gearbox up with any ratios you might dream of. In the old 901 gearbox days (there... I've just dated myself again), 2nd gear was part of the mainshaft. To change 2nd gear to anther ratio. we needed to get a 904 main shaft which allowed the gear to be replaced. This may still be true today. When in my racing days, I had two complete gearboxes... a "long gearbox for the Riverside long course, and a short box for Riverside short courses and Willow Springs. The short box had the 904 shaft and a 3rd gear that was only one "gearset letter" higher than the long box 2nd gear. What a sweet setup for a 2.7L, 290HP, 2000 lb car.
Roland offers sound advice... buddy or no, you need to know what your are getting. An independent inspection is very important.
10-29-2006, 03:28 AM
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CJ,
It sounds strange that you would have a 60mph 1st gear. I have that on my gearbox and the car is a nightmare to drive off the line, especially if you have substantial torque and use a non stock clutch. The 1st gear ratio would be a 2.5:1. I think that hat you might have is the 3.15 ratio that is more common.
If you are looking for speed and acceleration on our cars, lengthen your ratios and increase your rev limiter, don't shorten them.
same for track use, IMO.
It sounds strange that you would have a 60mph 1st gear. I have that on my gearbox and the car is a nightmare to drive off the line, especially if you have substantial torque and use a non stock clutch. The 1st gear ratio would be a 2.5:1. I think that hat you might have is the 3.15 ratio that is more common.
If you are looking for speed and acceleration on our cars, lengthen your ratios and increase your rev limiter, don't shorten them.
same for track use, IMO.
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10-29-2006, 07:05 AM
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CJ
Autothority were one of the first companies to come up with engine tuning packages for the 993tt in the mid 90s - their hp claims were always somewhat excitable.
Later on they started using componentry from various other tuning houses in Europe - they ran some nice adverts in Excellence showing the 607hp dyno curve which was produced with turbos which from memory were some sort of K16/garret hybrid and they used the V flow TTP intercooler. If the intercooler looks like this one:
http://www.t-t-p.de/english/993turbo.php (BTW the 600hp claim in the link was 520 real hp 100-200kph in 8.2s ~1500kg 4WD)
You will have no more than 520hp probably more like 490hp - although if it does have 490hp my guess is it will feel like plenty
Your 60-130 will reveal the true power output.
Autothority were one of the first companies to come up with engine tuning packages for the 993tt in the mid 90s - their hp claims were always somewhat excitable.
Later on they started using componentry from various other tuning houses in Europe - they ran some nice adverts in Excellence showing the 607hp dyno curve which was produced with turbos which from memory were some sort of K16/garret hybrid and they used the V flow TTP intercooler. If the intercooler looks like this one:
http://www.t-t-p.de/english/993turbo.php (BTW the 600hp claim in the link was 520 real hp 100-200kph in 8.2s ~1500kg 4WD)
You will have no more than 520hp probably more like 490hp - although if it does have 490hp my guess is it will feel like plenty
Your 60-130 will reveal the true power output.
10-29-2006, 10:11 AM
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the car is in chicago- I am in dallas. have to find a ppi up there before i bring it down. If any of you are from there and have a preference on where i should get it done- let me know.
I talked to RUF a few weeks ago- they inspected Pudge Rodriguez's 993TT which was made by the same guy as the car I'm buying and said it was legit.
tb993tt-The car in particular is lighter I believe than stock- the front hood, rear wing and front bumper are all carbon fiber- I don't know how much that accounts for.
Also, I've driven the 580hp andial 3.8 at ruf- so I'll be able to tell if this car is equal or lesser in torque and HP, and for what it's worth that car was just as easy to drive at low rpms and slow speeds as my 282hp 993. And if the chicago car turns out poorly then I'll go back to ruf and buy the andial one.
I'm not holding the bill stack from this car, so the info is what i've been told but I haven't verified yet. I'll have a laundry list of all the goodies at that point
I talked to RUF a few weeks ago- they inspected Pudge Rodriguez's 993TT which was made by the same guy as the car I'm buying and said it was legit.
tb993tt-The car in particular is lighter I believe than stock- the front hood, rear wing and front bumper are all carbon fiber- I don't know how much that accounts for.
Also, I've driven the 580hp andial 3.8 at ruf- so I'll be able to tell if this car is equal or lesser in torque and HP, and for what it's worth that car was just as easy to drive at low rpms and slow speeds as my 282hp 993. And if the chicago car turns out poorly then I'll go back to ruf and buy the andial one.
I'm not holding the bill stack from this car, so the info is what i've been told but I haven't verified yet. I'll have a laundry list of all the goodies at that point
10-29-2006, 10:49 AM
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C.J.
I believe what TB is trying to say is that you should look at the power claims with a grain of salt, no doubt the car will be blinding fast, but any 500HP+ 993TT is scary to drive. Just trying to make sure you pay for what it is, and not what you have been told, be it by a RUF tech or others.
Don't rely on butt dynos either, they are known to fail by 50hp (reference to a recent thread)
It sounds like an amazing car though, if it is all they say it is, go for it!
I believe what TB is trying to say is that you should look at the power claims with a grain of salt, no doubt the car will be blinding fast, but any 500HP+ 993TT is scary to drive. Just trying to make sure you pay for what it is, and not what you have been told, be it by a RUF tech or others.
Don't rely on butt dynos either, they are known to fail by 50hp (reference to a recent thread)
It sounds like an amazing car though, if it is all they say it is, go for it!
10-29-2006, 11:18 AM
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jean i agree with the inaccuracy of the butt dyno, but (no pun intended) I think it's a bit easier to tell the difference between 490 and around 600- than 580 and 600- my real hope is that it's around 550 on 93 octane or maybe a tick more. I definitely know what you mean about the bling hp claims and I am a bit suspect of those when i see them.
I've driven stock 996 and 993 TT's, ruf 993 Turbo R, ruf 996 rturbo 550, andial 3.8 580, and it remains to see where this car fits in. btw the andial was the fastest and most linear out of all of those. I keep thinking that maybe I should sell my 993 S and buy the one Ruf is selling.
I hate waiting.
I've driven stock 996 and 993 TT's, ruf 993 Turbo R, ruf 996 rturbo 550, andial 3.8 580, and it remains to see where this car fits in. btw the andial was the fastest and most linear out of all of those. I keep thinking that maybe I should sell my 993 S and buy the one Ruf is selling.
I hate waiting.
10-30-2006, 11:51 AM
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C.J. I have to agree with you about the Andial 3.8. The one I drove recently was so smooth and linear, it actually did not feel that fast! Even on the race setting with 100 octane!!
(You probably will "fall out of love" with you NA car.)
Can't wait to see the pics.
(You probably will "fall out of love" with you NA car.)
Can't wait to see the pics.
