Weltmeister UK.."We build excitment Pure PS no BS"
07-15-2006, 09:11 AM
#76
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For most people will or can not use a fraction of sustained horsepower the numbers are satisfaction enough. See discussions of 0-60 numbers that are at most only a very small indicator of real world performance.
In an ideal world one would jump in a customer car of your tuner beat it up to 200mph and then decide to buy or not to buy exactly that engine configuration.
In an ideal world one would jump in a customer car of your tuner beat it up to 200mph and then decide to buy or not to buy exactly that engine configuration.
07-15-2006, 01:12 PM
#77
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Chaps,
Just stumbled back onto this thread since rekindling my desire for 993tt based lunacy.
At the recent Vmax event, MOD's car was a revelation in terms of outright speed and whilst he has kindly muddied the waters of comparison somewhat I must acknowledge that on the day, under the circumstances, he had my car banged to rights.
Yes, we achieved similar top speeds (183 in vey hot temps [hot for the UK, that is!]) but his RS mapped torque spread was magnificient.
I'd like to chime in at this point with a definitive aside: neither my car or MOD's are currently fit to mix TB's drinks. MOD knows TB quite well, has been in the car and tells me of it's pure banshee spirit. Indeed, talking recently to the guys from Tech9, whilst keen not to divulge TB's technical developments, confirmed it was almost certainly the fastest accelerating, road legal 993, if not 911, in the UK. To me, he is leading the way, as it were and speaking for myself, I should one day like to meet up and experience the maelstrom. I wouldn't even BEGIN to think my car would get near it...
Back to the June Vmax event and following the recent installation of Carillos, the car's wick had been moderated; this may have trickled through into the performance on the day. Also, the infernal i/c pipes blowing off were a factor because having patched the offending tube up on the day, things felt pretty strong thereafter. MOD and I didn't run subsequently because at that point, I had thrown my keys away in despair and was sulking about, muttering that it was time to stop avoiding the inevitable and defect to a 996!
Fortunately, having cast such heretical musings aside, I'm resolved to keep the old beetle and will be continuing on the trail blazed by TB himself: I'm not really interested in the numbers anymore, as these events keep highlighting to me, the cornucopia of factors influencing real word grunt are such that only a fool makes absolute pronouncements and it pays to be open minded, objective and very keen to embrace all manner of experimental components.
Having said that, it is my intention to achieve more and more power but the chase, as they say, is sometimes better than the catch.
Hell, I'm even reinstalling the sports seats and cruise control!
Cheers,
DeR.
Just stumbled back onto this thread since rekindling my desire for 993tt based lunacy.
At the recent Vmax event, MOD's car was a revelation in terms of outright speed and whilst he has kindly muddied the waters of comparison somewhat I must acknowledge that on the day, under the circumstances, he had my car banged to rights.
Yes, we achieved similar top speeds (183 in vey hot temps [hot for the UK, that is!]) but his RS mapped torque spread was magnificient.
I'd like to chime in at this point with a definitive aside: neither my car or MOD's are currently fit to mix TB's drinks. MOD knows TB quite well, has been in the car and tells me of it's pure banshee spirit. Indeed, talking recently to the guys from Tech9, whilst keen not to divulge TB's technical developments, confirmed it was almost certainly the fastest accelerating, road legal 993, if not 911, in the UK. To me, he is leading the way, as it were and speaking for myself, I should one day like to meet up and experience the maelstrom. I wouldn't even BEGIN to think my car would get near it...
Back to the June Vmax event and following the recent installation of Carillos, the car's wick had been moderated; this may have trickled through into the performance on the day. Also, the infernal i/c pipes blowing off were a factor because having patched the offending tube up on the day, things felt pretty strong thereafter. MOD and I didn't run subsequently because at that point, I had thrown my keys away in despair and was sulking about, muttering that it was time to stop avoiding the inevitable and defect to a 996!
Fortunately, having cast such heretical musings aside, I'm resolved to keep the old beetle and will be continuing on the trail blazed by TB himself: I'm not really interested in the numbers anymore, as these events keep highlighting to me, the cornucopia of factors influencing real word grunt are such that only a fool makes absolute pronouncements and it pays to be open minded, objective and very keen to embrace all manner of experimental components.
Having said that, it is my intention to achieve more and more power but the chase, as they say, is sometimes better than the catch.
Hell, I'm even reinstalling the sports seats and cruise control!
Cheers,
DeR.
07-15-2006, 02:11 PM
#78
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DeR
Glad you are not going mass produced
Giving my car legendary status is quite flattering but it only seems that way because most of the other tuners are so clueless and are relying on chassis dynos giving high numbers which do not seem to "turn up" when these cars are loaded up in anger.
You are not bothered by hp/torque numbers which is fair enough, and in a way I am a little jealous and wish I could chill a little but after spending stupid amounts I get pretty wound up with comments like these posted by a well known "tuner" :
5. With respect to the difference in the mods we do compared with RS tuning, I have found that we get more power/torque out of our engines on lower boost levels purely because we run more ignition timing on a rich mixture, rather than up the boost and back off the timing on a weaker mixture.
However judging by the standard of mapping seen on a couple of German tuned 993RSR's recently, I would not be surprised if simply a more complete understanding of the management system has a greater part to play.
tb993tt said: Not wishing to start questioning 9Ms dyno numbers as that is a little tiresome, but I am fascinated as to how you GT2 guys are claiming such big numbers (compared to RS Tuning engine dyno numbers) from limited mods.
But you are clearly questioning my dyno numbers Toby, the very same dyno that I have used for 15 years with great results. The trouble is that you have shaken the tree and are now backing out of the way of the falling coconuts, so here’s one for you:
When you visited 9m earlier this year, do you not remember me offering to dyno your car for free? You have seen the cooling arrangelent on my installation and know that one test will not punish the car, so why have you not taken me up on this offer?
Is it that, possibly because of the money you have spent, you do not want to know how well your RS tuning engine compares to JC's and RG's? I am sure that given the opportunity JC would be up for sharing the same test session (at the same cost), thus putting the debate to bed once and for all.
Come on, what have you got to loose?
From what I understand most of the 993tt/GT2 boys (including the ones mentioned above) have now left this tuner despite his "greater understanding of engine management"
MOD's engine showed how solid and mainainable Porsche hp is compared to others tuners hp
Glad you are not going mass produced
Giving my car legendary status is quite flattering but it only seems that way because most of the other tuners are so clueless and are relying on chassis dynos giving high numbers which do not seem to "turn up" when these cars are loaded up in anger.
You are not bothered by hp/torque numbers which is fair enough, and in a way I am a little jealous and wish I could chill a little but after spending stupid amounts I get pretty wound up with comments like these posted by a well known "tuner" :
5. With respect to the difference in the mods we do compared with RS tuning, I have found that we get more power/torque out of our engines on lower boost levels purely because we run more ignition timing on a rich mixture, rather than up the boost and back off the timing on a weaker mixture.
However judging by the standard of mapping seen on a couple of German tuned 993RSR's recently, I would not be surprised if simply a more complete understanding of the management system has a greater part to play.
tb993tt said: Not wishing to start questioning 9Ms dyno numbers as that is a little tiresome, but I am fascinated as to how you GT2 guys are claiming such big numbers (compared to RS Tuning engine dyno numbers) from limited mods.
But you are clearly questioning my dyno numbers Toby, the very same dyno that I have used for 15 years with great results. The trouble is that you have shaken the tree and are now backing out of the way of the falling coconuts, so here’s one for you:
When you visited 9m earlier this year, do you not remember me offering to dyno your car for free? You have seen the cooling arrangelent on my installation and know that one test will not punish the car, so why have you not taken me up on this offer?
Is it that, possibly because of the money you have spent, you do not want to know how well your RS tuning engine compares to JC's and RG's? I am sure that given the opportunity JC would be up for sharing the same test session (at the same cost), thus putting the debate to bed once and for all.
Come on, what have you got to loose?
From what I understand most of the 993tt/GT2 boys (including the ones mentioned above) have now left this tuner despite his "greater understanding of engine management"
MOD's engine showed how solid and mainainable Porsche hp is compared to others tuners hp
Last edited by TB993tt; 07-15-2006 at 05:48 PM.
07-16-2006, 07:01 PM
#79
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TB,
Let's just say the road is fraught with false dawns and people may have various experiences...
My current route will hopefully yield substantial gains, greater than those which gave a 190 run at a previous Vmax: there's more to do and the old girl still has a way to go but after the recent engine work I strongly believe intriguing experiments lie ahead.
Here we go!
Cheers, DeR.
Let's just say the road is fraught with false dawns and people may have various experiences...
My current route will hopefully yield substantial gains, greater than those which gave a 190 run at a previous Vmax: there's more to do and the old girl still has a way to go but after the recent engine work I strongly believe intriguing experiments lie ahead.
Here we go!
Cheers, DeR.
