Where is the market.....$$, supply & demand
04-21-2006, 02:53 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by robroy72
Not everyone speaks English perfectly, so phone conversations don't work well for some. I'm Scottish, so my accent causes a problem to some people, I try and handle most things via EMail, not because I'm trying to hide. Quite frankly, if that is the attitude you have been adopting, I think we now know why it hasn't sold.
04-21-2006, 03:24 PM
#32
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Given the attitude of the seller in this thread, I think it's pretty clear why you haven't sold the car.
Not everyone is going to criss-cross the country seeing every vehicle that is a potential. Some very real buyers will buy it based on pictures, history, PPI, oh yeah, and the attitude of the seller. I used to think I was going to go on a two week trip around the country looking for the perfect car. But the cost of such a trip will cost as much as more as fixing what is wrong with a less than perfect car.
Put your car on eBay, use some of your 29 pictures, and answer questions like you care about selling it.
Not everyone is going to criss-cross the country seeing every vehicle that is a potential. Some very real buyers will buy it based on pictures, history, PPI, oh yeah, and the attitude of the seller. I used to think I was going to go on a two week trip around the country looking for the perfect car. But the cost of such a trip will cost as much as more as fixing what is wrong with a less than perfect car.
Put your car on eBay, use some of your 29 pictures, and answer questions like you care about selling it.
04-21-2006, 05:02 PM
#33
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Newbie alert! After reading this thread, I had to register and post a comment.
I'm one of the suckers willing to pay 5-10 percent too much in exchange for convenience. Two or three trips across the country to view private sale cars will cost as much or more in dollars and lost time than the up-charge from a big name dealer. And there's no guarantee I'll be able to spot problems even in person. Like hiring employees from a temp agency, a quality dealer will carefully select his offerings. Nothing sells better than a satisfied customer, and these guys generally want to stay in business.
For private sellers, it is dead wrong to assume a serious buyer will pick up the phone. I hate phones. They're a last resort to me. I shop first on the web, and if your presentation doesn't wow me...strike one. If I e-mail and am given a cold response, or told I must call to get more info...strikes two and three. A private seller has to work just as hard for my dollars, even at a cheaper price. In today's environment, the web is at least as important as the phone.
Of course, I could be proven dissasterously wrong about all this, and will admit as much if my just purchased 993TT turns out to be junk. I bought it on the web...
I'm one of the suckers willing to pay 5-10 percent too much in exchange for convenience. Two or three trips across the country to view private sale cars will cost as much or more in dollars and lost time than the up-charge from a big name dealer. And there's no guarantee I'll be able to spot problems even in person. Like hiring employees from a temp agency, a quality dealer will carefully select his offerings. Nothing sells better than a satisfied customer, and these guys generally want to stay in business.
For private sellers, it is dead wrong to assume a serious buyer will pick up the phone. I hate phones. They're a last resort to me. I shop first on the web, and if your presentation doesn't wow me...strike one. If I e-mail and am given a cold response, or told I must call to get more info...strikes two and three. A private seller has to work just as hard for my dollars, even at a cheaper price. In today's environment, the web is at least as important as the phone.
Of course, I could be proven dissasterously wrong about all this, and will admit as much if my just purchased 993TT turns out to be junk. I bought it on the web...
04-21-2006, 05:58 PM
#34
sellers perspective
I had a great experience the other day with a prospective buyer. He calls me up and and tells me he wants to ask a lot of questions about the car. Ok, so he starts off with what are PSS9's, what is SSK, what is the blue stuff on the car in the pic (see avatar)? I answer his questions then he starts trying to "negotiate". He tells me he's owned 10 Porsches and that he's an "expert" and been around Rennlist etc.. (doubt it) and that in his opinion the only way a 993 would need valve guides at 50k is due to abuse, specifically a 5th to 2nd gear misshift, yeah right. He then sais he's looking for a project car and how much am I willing to negotiate on the price. At this point I wouldn't have sold the car to this guy if he offered me asking price, I just told him "not negotiable".
I chose to only advertising on Rennlist right now to try and avoid a lot of tire kickers and narrow the pool to a more knowledgable base. Luckily I have also been contacted by some reasonable people with realistic expectations.
Good luck with your new turbo Ignomini. You know your going to have to start a new thread with pics right.
I chose to only advertising on Rennlist right now to try and avoid a lot of tire kickers and narrow the pool to a more knowledgable base. Luckily I have also been contacted by some reasonable people with realistic expectations.
Good luck with your new turbo Ignomini. You know your going to have to start a new thread with pics right.
04-21-2006, 05:59 PM
#35
Drifting
A few tips for selling a used pcar when trying to obtain top dollar:
1. Clean the car top to bottom, not a speck of dirt should be visible in the pictures.
2. Take lots and lots of digital hi-res pics of the car. Try different lighting and different angles to obtain the best representation of the car. Select about 20-30 pictures that represent the car and colour most accurately. Buyers can never have too many pictures as long as each one is unique and high quality (don't include pictures for the sake of having lots).
3. Setup a simple webpage or use ebay to list the car's details and pictures. Include as much detail as possible. If the bumper has been repainted, say so, treat others as you'd want to be treated, be honest. Depending on how much maintenance you've done, it may be a good idea to post up your maintenance history, although I would not recommend putting prices up as it may scare away a potential buyer.
4. List the asking price or the firm price and make sure that you say what colour it is. It drives me crazy when postings don't even put down which colour it is (ocean blue and midnight blue look similar in pics).
5. Market your car on ebay, rennlist, autotrader, etc, etc. Be sincere in the ad, tell the truth, it will come through loud and clear and make your potential buyer feel comfortable. Have someone else read it and ask them what they think of the ad. I like the way Buxton Motorsports describes their cars, seems very sincere and honest.
6. Check your email frequently and keep your phone on. Have a template ready to send out with frequently asked questions. Even though this phase is often the most annoying, take extra time to make sure you deal with the buyer as a potential customer, because you are ultimately competing with high end dealers if you want top end prices.
7. When taking the test driver out, insist on going for a ride in the buyer's car first to ensure that they are not trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission with your vehicle. Even if they baulk at this and you bypass the requirement, it sets the stage to demonstrate that you really care about your car and are a responsible owner.
Finally, when it comes time to do the deal and the car is sold, package up all the repair bills, documentation, etc. and bind it for the new owner. I also include any video footage I have from autocross, etc. so they have the full archive of the car's history. Right before the new owner comes, I wash the car really well, vacuum it one last time and make sure it's in perfect condition when they pick it up. I want to see the smile on their face the same as what I had when I picked the car up many years before.
This method above has worked for me with a few cars now. It's a bit of extra work, but it seems to help find the right type of owner for your baby, someone that will treat it as well as you did and pay the top dollar that you want.
Perhaps others can add to the list if there is something I've missed.
Hope this helps,
Farzaan
1. Clean the car top to bottom, not a speck of dirt should be visible in the pictures.
2. Take lots and lots of digital hi-res pics of the car. Try different lighting and different angles to obtain the best representation of the car. Select about 20-30 pictures that represent the car and colour most accurately. Buyers can never have too many pictures as long as each one is unique and high quality (don't include pictures for the sake of having lots).
3. Setup a simple webpage or use ebay to list the car's details and pictures. Include as much detail as possible. If the bumper has been repainted, say so, treat others as you'd want to be treated, be honest. Depending on how much maintenance you've done, it may be a good idea to post up your maintenance history, although I would not recommend putting prices up as it may scare away a potential buyer.
4. List the asking price or the firm price and make sure that you say what colour it is. It drives me crazy when postings don't even put down which colour it is (ocean blue and midnight blue look similar in pics).
5. Market your car on ebay, rennlist, autotrader, etc, etc. Be sincere in the ad, tell the truth, it will come through loud and clear and make your potential buyer feel comfortable. Have someone else read it and ask them what they think of the ad. I like the way Buxton Motorsports describes their cars, seems very sincere and honest.
6. Check your email frequently and keep your phone on. Have a template ready to send out with frequently asked questions. Even though this phase is often the most annoying, take extra time to make sure you deal with the buyer as a potential customer, because you are ultimately competing with high end dealers if you want top end prices.
7. When taking the test driver out, insist on going for a ride in the buyer's car first to ensure that they are not trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission with your vehicle. Even if they baulk at this and you bypass the requirement, it sets the stage to demonstrate that you really care about your car and are a responsible owner.
Finally, when it comes time to do the deal and the car is sold, package up all the repair bills, documentation, etc. and bind it for the new owner. I also include any video footage I have from autocross, etc. so they have the full archive of the car's history. Right before the new owner comes, I wash the car really well, vacuum it one last time and make sure it's in perfect condition when they pick it up. I want to see the smile on their face the same as what I had when I picked the car up many years before.
This method above has worked for me with a few cars now. It's a bit of extra work, but it seems to help find the right type of owner for your baby, someone that will treat it as well as you did and pay the top dollar that you want.
Perhaps others can add to the list if there is something I've missed.
Hope this helps,
Farzaan
04-21-2006, 08:13 PM
#37
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I personally belief that the value of these cars will start to decrease to a more normal depreciation range. They will never be a bargain as there were few produced and they are the last of the air cooled. There will always be diehards who are only interested in 993; however, some are thinking of 997 where as it never crossed their minds with a 996. Here are some reasons why I also belief that the norm will be in the 50's (higher mileage) and 60's (low to medium mileage).
1.997 is being produced in large numbers and will start within the next year or
two to effect prices throughout the porsche range.ie depreciation
2.Caymen will be available used and they are produced in large numbers
3.996 will continue to be in a freefall
4.Very few people willing to pay 60-80 thousaud for a 11 year old 993.
5.The people who are will seek out the Willhoits, Premier, RPM.
6.Warranty included with newer vehicles
7.Interest rates rising and no bank will finance 11 year old car.
8.Cost of parts on 993 way more expensive than 996, 997, or Caymen.
9.993 tt while rare are not as rare as a 964 3.6t which can be bought privately
in the 50's. (Yes, RPM has some in 70's but supper low mileage and don't
seem to move at a fast rate).
10.Newer porsche's have nearly the same performance for less. ie. Caymen
11.997 tt coming onto the market-buyers who said no to 996tt might say yes to
997 tt.
There will always be people who want a 993 tt but they are becoming fewer and some like myself are finding it harder and harder to justify these prices when there are so many other choices within this price range.
1.997 is being produced in large numbers and will start within the next year or
two to effect prices throughout the porsche range.ie depreciation
2.Caymen will be available used and they are produced in large numbers
3.996 will continue to be in a freefall
4.Very few people willing to pay 60-80 thousaud for a 11 year old 993.
5.The people who are will seek out the Willhoits, Premier, RPM.
6.Warranty included with newer vehicles
7.Interest rates rising and no bank will finance 11 year old car.
8.Cost of parts on 993 way more expensive than 996, 997, or Caymen.
9.993 tt while rare are not as rare as a 964 3.6t which can be bought privately
in the 50's. (Yes, RPM has some in 70's but supper low mileage and don't
seem to move at a fast rate).
10.Newer porsche's have nearly the same performance for less. ie. Caymen
11.997 tt coming onto the market-buyers who said no to 996tt might say yes to
997 tt.
There will always be people who want a 993 tt but they are becoming fewer and some like myself are finding it harder and harder to justify these prices when there are so many other choices within this price range.
04-22-2006, 10:43 PM
#39
Don't consider all internet buyers to be tire kickers. I work a job where people wait weeks for appointments to see me and therefore between family and work I can't get away easily. That being said...sometimes I have to way out my times value and risk. I've negotiated two used Porsches from the west coast and a new vehicle from a state away without every seeing them in person. Risky, you bet. Did it work, YES.
Some of us out here in the midwest don't have a lot of cars next door to drive over and see. The last search I did for a 928 on autotrader didn't find a car within 200 miles at one point.
Some of us out here in the midwest don't have a lot of cars next door to drive over and see. The last search I did for a 928 on autotrader didn't find a car within 200 miles at one point.
04-23-2006, 05:44 AM
#40
Track Day
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From across the Atlantic ; Europeen trends on 993TT.
Bought a black/black with 36K miles a year ago for 60K dollars.
Today traders/privat dealers are demanding nearly 80K dollars.
Still cars seems to me cheaper in Europa than in US.
Good cars with low milage tends to go without ever seeing guys like Willhoit,RPM and Premier.
Those people are exploiting and benefitting on satiesfying needs or wishes that are due to people having an extra cash.
Bought a 993 4S from Texas via Dupont from a privat and had to spend 4000 on repairs.
My TT bought from a dealer in Germany also demanded 4000.
Never thought of buying a car as an investment and I feel sorry for guys keeping good cars if they
are more concerned about investment aspects than driving pleasure. (Don`t be offended -I am not a millonaire.)
The TT is a 10 year old car and Porsche are improving all the time. That is a fact.
The new 997 and Cayman are VERY good options and not that much more expensive than we ovners of tt`s want to think our cars are worth.
These reasons are facts concerning any other kind of car. Why should prises on TT`s not respond to the same facts ?
I am a norwegian. Norway are not part of the EU. To get my TT street legal I had to pay another 50K
dollars in taxes. Buying the New 997 turbo in Norway is for the very very few.
greetings from Norway.
Bought a black/black with 36K miles a year ago for 60K dollars.
Today traders/privat dealers are demanding nearly 80K dollars.
Still cars seems to me cheaper in Europa than in US.
Good cars with low milage tends to go without ever seeing guys like Willhoit,RPM and Premier.
Those people are exploiting and benefitting on satiesfying needs or wishes that are due to people having an extra cash.
Bought a 993 4S from Texas via Dupont from a privat and had to spend 4000 on repairs.
My TT bought from a dealer in Germany also demanded 4000.
Never thought of buying a car as an investment and I feel sorry for guys keeping good cars if they
are more concerned about investment aspects than driving pleasure. (Don`t be offended -I am not a millonaire.)
The TT is a 10 year old car and Porsche are improving all the time. That is a fact.
The new 997 and Cayman are VERY good options and not that much more expensive than we ovners of tt`s want to think our cars are worth.
These reasons are facts concerning any other kind of car. Why should prises on TT`s not respond to the same facts ?
I am a norwegian. Norway are not part of the EU. To get my TT street legal I had to pay another 50K
dollars in taxes. Buying the New 997 turbo in Norway is for the very very few.
greetings from Norway.
04-27-2006, 12:24 PM
#42
Track Day
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That`s quite true.
And gas for my love is 2 dollar a litre , which is about 8 dollars a gallon.
And what is more - we are the 2. or 3. biggest oilproducers in the world.
You are interested in "comming home" ???
Greetings Norway
sfju
And gas for my love is 2 dollar a litre , which is about 8 dollars a gallon.
And what is more - we are the 2. or 3. biggest oilproducers in the world.
You are interested in "comming home" ???
Greetings Norway
sfju
05-03-2006, 11:33 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Luus
rmauro, I might have some insight for you. I contacted you about your car shortly after you posted it for sale. I asked for some general info and pics. you emailed me a four word sentence which basically said if serious call me. I have to say it turned me off.
I understand that you might think people are wasting your time with requests for pics or just out there tire kicking but for a lot of people email is a geat way to make initial contact 1) to see if there is continued interest and 2) to see if there is some repoirte between seller and buyer.
I think if you are serious about selling the car you might want to rethink your response to email inquiries or delete your email addy from the ad. I also think you should reconsider your ad and include a pic and lower price. Just my 2 cents
I understand that you might think people are wasting your time with requests for pics or just out there tire kicking but for a lot of people email is a geat way to make initial contact 1) to see if there is continued interest and 2) to see if there is some repoirte between seller and buyer.
I think if you are serious about selling the car you might want to rethink your response to email inquiries or delete your email addy from the ad. I also think you should reconsider your ad and include a pic and lower price. Just my 2 cents
05-03-2006, 11:57 PM
#44
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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most of the post above are right on. internet is the primary way to communicate now. i rarely if ever answer my phone at home or office. if my wife wants to talk to me, email me from the kitchen. so emailers are not tire kickers.
no matter how great 993's are, at the dep'n rate of 996 TT, you are going against some very tough competition that can be financed and still got warranty. and for me, in CA, i am not going to fly out there until i see about 1000's of pix on your car and ask you tons of questions before i even show any interest to fly out there. in fact one of the cars i am interested in are still being negotiated b/n me and the seller over 6 months. these are expensive cars, expensed used car at best. and anyone willing to pony up 70k to buy a 8 - 9 year old car should and need to ask lots of questions and email is one good way to start. then if i am interested, i may fly out to see it once, twice, maybe three times. if you dont have that kind of patience, you can trade in with dealers. personally i have no patience in dealing with that, so i always dump my car at dealer to save time and lose 10-20k in the sales price. i have never taken more than 24 hours to sell any of my cars. i dont use ebay either. i call friends and rennlister who i think may like the car and offer it to them at what i can get from my dealer. if i dont get a check in 24 hours, car is dumped at dealer. so you either choose to lose time or lose money, you can't have it both ways.
no matter how great 993's are, at the dep'n rate of 996 TT, you are going against some very tough competition that can be financed and still got warranty. and for me, in CA, i am not going to fly out there until i see about 1000's of pix on your car and ask you tons of questions before i even show any interest to fly out there. in fact one of the cars i am interested in are still being negotiated b/n me and the seller over 6 months. these are expensive cars, expensed used car at best. and anyone willing to pony up 70k to buy a 8 - 9 year old car should and need to ask lots of questions and email is one good way to start. then if i am interested, i may fly out to see it once, twice, maybe three times. if you dont have that kind of patience, you can trade in with dealers. personally i have no patience in dealing with that, so i always dump my car at dealer to save time and lose 10-20k in the sales price. i have never taken more than 24 hours to sell any of my cars. i dont use ebay either. i call friends and rennlister who i think may like the car and offer it to them at what i can get from my dealer. if i dont get a check in 24 hours, car is dumped at dealer. so you either choose to lose time or lose money, you can't have it both ways.
05-04-2006, 01:47 AM
#45
Drifting
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Take it from someone who knows...with my car in the classifieds for just over a week now I have answered more than a few emails.
If your going to list these things you must be prepared to spend sometime with potential buyers. These cars command respect when driven, likewise you have to respect anyone that seeks info, these cars are not cheap and I don't believe most that buy them are stupid and cannot be treated as such. I you don't want to spend time with the details, don't list it 4 sale.
If your going to list these things you must be prepared to spend sometime with potential buyers. These cars command respect when driven, likewise you have to respect anyone that seeks info, these cars are not cheap and I don't believe most that buy them are stupid and cannot be treated as such. I you don't want to spend time with the details, don't list it 4 sale.