leonsamonas

don't sweat it toby, if u want to put me in my place why not bring it to the track, i prefer to do my talking there....just show up

To compare ruf to rs tuning IMHO is apples and oranges despite your allegations to the contrary..looing forward to meeting u soon brother

TB993tt

You got too much testosterone flowing there bro' - you'll get your chance on the "strip"

I'm just trying to get some facts down - your 993tt should be as fast accelerating as the RT12 and with your higher 6th and uber slippery body should be there at top end as well.

The Ruf v RS thing is something I followed for many years - the first shootout after RS left Ruf was fascinating with RS putting "his" twin turbo engine in a widebody 911. They both did the 1/4 mile in exactly the same 11.7sec @ 133mph.
Following the CTR1 they went in slightly different directions with Ruf carrying on doing the full package of body, interior,wheels, suspension and engine whilst RS concentrated 95% on engines becoming the most reverred Porsche race engine builder in Germany - a nice by-product was that the then new technology of computer controlled timing/fuelling/boost meant that these race engines were perfectly usable on the street.

Re the RT12 - I thought this post was asking for objectivity, but if you just want us all to say how good it is then I'll join in - pheonominal car good looking, smooth, fast, Ruf , etc...... Its just if it was me I'd wait a year to see what they do with the new 997tt motor.

leonsamonas

toby, dont hate the player, hate the game........the rt twizzle would destroy both our cars, also the R50 which I also have on order will destroy a veyron 1200kg 900+bhp mid mounted in a carbon chassis.....rs tuning has a way to go to compete in life

TB993tt

You're talking in riddles......I'm interested in facts on the RL 993tt technical forum.
Well I tried to talk numbers re the RT12 v our cars but you are obviously blinded by the light
Really.......? I think you need to do some more research

Rickard 993 Turbo

Here in sweden i have talked to alot of diffrent porsche tuners and engien builders and all agree on that RUF are nr1 and RS tuning is somewhere in middle of top 10

Just what i have heard over here

Rassel

Just minor details.

Regarding the crank case, yes it's based on the 964. But that's the crankcase and some minor details. Not really much can be said about the rest of the engine because of this, or we would all go by 964's a simply tune them to 415hp.


RS-Tuning and Ruf are not really comparable. Ruf focus on street cars. RS is quite present at motorsport teams today.
Manthey and RS would rather be a better comparison.

Jean

Leon, I respect your devotion to RUF but you cannot be serious! If there is one builder out there that competes in life, it must be RS. I have yet to see ONE RUF built car compete in any championship.
Just talk to any of the German Porsche racing teams and see what they answer when you ask them who they would go to if they have to build the best engine out there. I felt stupid when I mentioned RUF and saw the looks of those engineers from 3 different teams, only two weeks ago. Their answer was even worse.

RUF is an excellent consumer oriented outfit who builds very nice (and expensive) street cars, second to none. RS Tuning and a few other are pure racing pedigree, and proven track records in winning, not in magazines and marketing. They are two different industries all together.

As far as Reinhold Schmirler is concerned, he is THE authority in the German Porsche engine tuning scene, just like Manthey is the king of suspension and chassis setups.

Oh and I don't care who is better because I chose the best tuner in the world for my engine... in my view that is and I can beat 99% of RUF cars out there, they just never show up to races and owners hardly share acceleration data. Unfortunately I cannot go to the UK to run against the guys here on the forum, but it would help so much if we can just see the AX22 data, especially that they all have one

Wow Rassel, we certainly agree don't we! Just saw your post

Rassel

Glad you took the long version

It gets even more interesting when separating the tuners from the developers.

Aoaaaii.... That's gonna sting for a few certain individuals..

GuyR

I agree with two comments as follows:

Ruf make awesome roads car and do not attempt lap records or building race cars/engines in general.

RS Tuning make great engines and do so for many race teams.

However the engine prices for both are very similar as are their methods. If I was building a race engine maybe I'd ask RS Tuning, but as I wanted a road-car with a 2yr engine warranty and great customer service I bought from Ruf. When I had a minor problem with boost Ruf flew an engineer from Germany to my house, when he couldn't fix it there he drove the car back to Germany, removed the engine, fixed it on an engine dyno, re-installed it and returned the car to me, all for no charge - would RS Tuning do that? (Well I know the answer in reality since they do not even bother to respond to emails....)

The car Leon has ordered will be immense, but it's his personal choice, like everything in life. Some people do not wish to buy one brand vs another or one product vs another etc etc. We should all respect the diversity of what is available rather than try to justify our own decisions by mocking others.

Oh by the way Leon, I own the number plates R12 RUF and R50 RUF, thats forward planning..............

Guy

AVoyvoda

Go for it. Absolutely. The R12 looks like the ultimate. Faster than a CGT and virtually anything else out there.

Not having driven the car however, I’d be concerned with:
a) tractability and clutch wear in heavy city traffic and,
b) stability in the rain or on slippery roads especially since it will a 2wd turbo with a nearly vertical power curve.
Therefore, top of my wish list, would be a “manetino” style toggle between “normal” and “city”. The later to limit power to a more manageable 350hp or thereabouts for those occasions when one is forced to drive slowly and carefully.
Don’t know whether the R12’s ECU will allow such “dual” mapping, but I suspect it might.

Rassel

Ah, Guy you have a good point there. Let me take a story somewhat similar to that:

One of the first Murcielagos ended up in Sweden. Owner picked it up from Italy, drove it home to Sweden and was as happy as he could get. Once here, the car broke down really quick due to a small, but still crucial, part that failed. He called Lambo the same day and two days later an italian man rang the door bell to his house. He'd been driven all the way from Italy and brought an exact copy of the custmer car on with him. Once here, he took the broken down one to Italy, fixed it and returned back. Meanwhile, the customer enjoying the Murcielago he left.

Now, that's customer service!

--

While RS-Tuning concentrate on their part of the market, Rufs expertise is in customer satistfaction/pleasure. Motorsport and consumer market are two completly different breeds and can't be really compared. I share a great deal of respect to Ruf for bringing refined products to their customer. Even though I doubt there will be such a stunning thing as Yellowbird in a near future, they really take care of their customers. Something that 99.999% of motorsport companies s*ck at!

TB993tt

Guy's points about customer service are 100% valid - Spend your money with Ruf and get great customer service and back up. RS are a joke in this department - if you have a problem you are basically on your own, which I guess for similar money (as Ruf) is not acceptable to most people. RS however do push the envelope technically due to the race engine development which to some people is worth forgoing the warranty to get the cutting edge stuff.

Whilst I seem to do nothing but talk "up" RS on here, when I get one to one with people I never recommend going with them unless one is totally prepared.

Kevin

The engine case design for the 997TT will be similar to the 964.. BUT, the actual case has been re-designed and is made in Spain (since 2004 production). The new casting has gotten rid of the normal openings in the casting for which the 964 and 993 needed such as oil return tube holes and bosses for the fan housing. The largest change or benifit in the design is strengthening the main bore webbing and intermediate shaft support.

Rassel

Are those introductions between the 997 and the 996 crank cases (Spain versions)?!

03-turbo911

Getting back to the RT12. Leon, did you decide if you're going with the PSS9's or the Ohlins?