Andial - magic formula ?
03-06-2006, 12:58 PM
#16
Originally Posted by 79hotrod
I have a S ecu in my 96 but would like to scare another 100 hp with good torque out of my car without making a bomb of the motor. I already have a cargraphic oil cooler - but want to reprogram it add some some new turbos & 100 cell cats and whatever fuel pressure regulator and other odds and ends I need to get 520-540hp. While its mostly a track car - I want to be able maintain street legality. Who is best for a chip and turbos - what should I be prepared to spend??
I was considering having Todd at Protomotive upgrade the engine but am really put off in that one will be lucky to get 5-10K of that back if you go to sell.
Having to rebuild the engine is what really drives up the cost for the extra 50-75hp you get.
03-06-2006, 05:09 PM
#17
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Sounds like you had a great day at the track! Any vids?
Sorry took the camera, but spent time with two guys helping them sort out their cars and driving.
On the Thielert ECU, Andial had the flexibility to have several different maps with different timings, AFRs etc.. to use with race fuel, therefore the difference in output between the street and race version can be substantial, I would not discard a 60-100 HP increase quite easily between programs..hardware allowing of course.
Jean, I have both ecu's. Thielert has at least 60 hp more. In my acceleraometer it traps 5-6mph higher in the quarter mile.
We hear from experienced drivers like yourself how strong they are and I have been trying to set a bench to compare how my car is doing vs. an Andial 3.8TT since they were my first choice for a tuner back when I did my car.
This last week end was a humbling experience after looking at the Motec datalogs of the Franz Konrad team with the 997 Supercup and they were beating my top speed by 11Km/h at the end of the straight. Exit speed is certainly a factor since they are pro-racers but our turbo aircooled engines don't stand a chance even in straight line
Remember the cup cars are momentum cars so their exit speeds are higher and it takes a hugh amount of hp to overcome this. I suggest you reinstall the all wheel drive to get out of the corners faster
Sad, but technology has caught up to our cars. 
I still like the fact that I can drive a street legal car to the track and the only thing that can beat me are all out race cars. 
Sorry took the camera, but spent time with two guys helping them sort out their cars and driving.
On the Thielert ECU, Andial had the flexibility to have several different maps with different timings, AFRs etc.. to use with race fuel, therefore the difference in output between the street and race version can be substantial, I would not discard a 60-100 HP increase quite easily between programs..hardware allowing of course.
Jean, I have both ecu's. Thielert has at least 60 hp more. In my acceleraometer it traps 5-6mph higher in the quarter mile.
We hear from experienced drivers like yourself how strong they are and I have been trying to set a bench to compare how my car is doing vs. an Andial 3.8TT since they were my first choice for a tuner back when I did my car.
This last week end was a humbling experience after looking at the Motec datalogs of the Franz Konrad team with the 997 Supercup and they were beating my top speed by 11Km/h at the end of the straight. Exit speed is certainly a factor since they are pro-racers but our turbo aircooled engines don't stand a chance even in straight line
Remember the cup cars are momentum cars so their exit speeds are higher and it takes a hugh amount of hp to overcome this. I suggest you reinstall the all wheel drive to get out of the corners faster
Sad, but technology has caught up to our cars. I still like the fact that I can drive a street legal car to the track and the only thing that can beat me are all out race cars.
03-06-2006, 08:46 PM
#18
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I have video from my cup car of Jim's TT literally walking away from me down the straight at Willow. When he would lead into turn 9 (onto the straight) it wouldn't even be a contest. When I led into 9, I could carry more speed but it would only take him a few seconds longer to vanish off into the horizon.... Pretty humbling experience if I say so myself. I'd be happy to forward the video(with Jim's permission) if anyone can host it....
03-07-2006, 01:10 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior
I have video from my cup car of Jim's TT literally walking away from me down the straight at Willow. When he would lead into turn 9 (onto the straight) it wouldn't even be a contest. When I led into 9, I could carry more speed but it would only take him a few seconds longer to vanish off into the horizon.... Pretty humbling experience if I say so myself. I'd be happy to forward the video(with Jim's permission) if anyone can host it....
03-07-2006, 06:44 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by JJayB
In my acceleraometer it traps 5-6mph higher in the quarter mile.
Originally Posted by JJayB
Remember the cup cars are momentum cars so their exit speeds are higher and it takes a hugh amount of hp to overcome this.
Originally Posted by JJayB
I suggest you reinstall the all wheel drive to get out of the corners faster Sad, but technology has caught up to our cars. I still like the fact that I can drive a street legal car to the track and the only thing that can beat me are all out race cars.
Sad, but technology has caught up to our cars. I still like the fact that I can drive a street legal car to the track and the only thing that can beat me are all out race cars.
old technology is still alive and will be kicking soon!JR, please post the video, maybe on one of those free sites?
03-07-2006, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JJayB
You have my permission. As long as its not used against me in a court of law.
JMayzyrk has offered to host it. I'll edit it down to a minute or two today and get it over to him.
03-07-2006, 09:30 PM
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"Jim, so what is an Andial 3.8TT typical 60-130mph with the race program, have you tested it?"
Jean
I don't have an AX22, and my license is in a bit of peril currently, so I'm a bit hesitant to flash the CHP in the spirit of science, funny they think 120 is fast. So here's my two versions. Hand held stop watch (I know its not accurace to the nano second) 6.8 to 7.3 on three runs. With the passport Gtimer 7.23. This is the nice race program. There is another that I've haven't timed and it should be a bit quicker as it allows up to 1.25 bars its the current one I use on track days.
Sorry Toby for hijacking your thread.
Jean
I don't have an AX22, and my license is in a bit of peril currently, so I'm a bit hesitant to flash the CHP in the spirit of science, funny they think 120 is fast. So here's my two versions. Hand held stop watch (I know its not accurace to the nano second) 6.8 to 7.3 on three runs. With the passport Gtimer 7.23. This is the nice race program. There is another that I've haven't timed and it should be a bit quicker as it allows up to 1.25 bars its the current one I use on track days.
Sorry Toby for hijacking your thread.
03-08-2006, 06:26 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by JJayB
"Jim, so what is an Andial 3.8TT typical 60-130mph with the race program, have you tested it?"
Jean
I don't have an AX22, and my license is in a bit of peril currently, so I'm a bit hesitant to flash the CHP in the spirit of science, funny they think 120 is fast. So here's my two versions. Hand held stop watch (I know its not accurace to the nano second) 6.8 to 7.3 on three runs. With the passport Gtimer 7.23. This is the nice race program. There is another that I've haven't timed and it should be a bit quicker as it allows up to 1.25 bars its the current one I use on track days.
Sorry Toby for hijacking your thread.
Jean
I don't have an AX22, and my license is in a bit of peril currently, so I'm a bit hesitant to flash the CHP in the spirit of science, funny they think 120 is fast. So here's my two versions. Hand held stop watch (I know its not accurace to the nano second) 6.8 to 7.3 on three runs. With the passport Gtimer 7.23. This is the nice race program. There is another that I've haven't timed and it should be a bit quicker as it allows up to 1.25 bars its the current one I use on track days.
Sorry Toby for hijacking your thread.
I would fully expect the "accurate" 60-130mph time to be only slightly slower than mine (since mine weighs quite a bit less and is 2WD) - maybe 8 to 8.5secs.
What I would be really interested to see is the acceleration 130 to 160 (like on one of the graphs I have shown on the other thread) as this would reveal the power in the higher loading gears.
Obviously we don't want people getting banged up 'tho'
03-09-2006, 12:27 AM
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I would fully expect the "accurate" 60-130mph time to be only slightly slower than mine (since mine weighs quite a bit less and is 2WD) - maybe 8 to 8.5secs.
What I would be really interested to see is the acceleration 130 to 160 (like on one of the graphs I have shown on the other thread) as this would reveal the power in the higher loading gears.
My car weighs 3240 with 1/4 tank of VP 100. I have changed 6th gear to a lower ratio which is devistating on the track. Although I give up ultimate top speed, I haven't found anything that I couldn't pull. If Bill S is correct and a Carrera GT is capable of 7.2 for a 60-130 mph, I'm in the 7's. I pulled on Carrera which happened to be caught on video which was posted on 6speed on line. Obviously, I'd need a AX22 or equivelent to test the 130 to 160. Until then it will be internet racing.
What I would be really interested to see is the acceleration 130 to 160 (like on one of the graphs I have shown on the other thread) as this would reveal the power in the higher loading gears.
My car weighs 3240 with 1/4 tank of VP 100. I have changed 6th gear to a lower ratio which is devistating on the track. Although I give up ultimate top speed, I haven't found anything that I couldn't pull. If Bill S is correct and a Carrera GT is capable of 7.2 for a 60-130 mph, I'm in the 7's. I pulled on Carrera which happened to be caught on video which was posted on 6speed on line. Obviously, I'd need a AX22 or equivelent to test the 130 to 160. Until then it will be internet racing.
03-09-2006, 12:41 AM
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Jim,
Best buy in the last 4 years, the AX22. Fantastic tool for the track as well, if one takes into consideration its practicality, in 15 seconds you put it in the car and out. Its accuracy for track usage is fantastic. I am taking out of my car my AIM MXL Pista as a result.
Hope your little speeding issue is resolved.
Best
Best buy in the last 4 years, the AX22. Fantastic tool for the track as well, if one takes into consideration its practicality, in 15 seconds you put it in the car and out. Its accuracy for track usage is fantastic. I am taking out of my car my AIM MXL Pista as a result.
Hope your little speeding issue is resolved.
Best
03-09-2006, 01:05 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Jean
Jim,
Best buy in the last 4 years, the AX22. Fantastic tool for the track as well, if one takes into consideration its practicality, in 15 seconds you put it in the car and out. Its accuracy for track usage is fantastic. I am taking out of my car my AIM MXL Pista as a result.
Hope your little speeding issue is resolved.
Best
Best buy in the last 4 years, the AX22. Fantastic tool for the track as well, if one takes into consideration its practicality, in 15 seconds you put it in the car and out. Its accuracy for track usage is fantastic. I am taking out of my car my AIM MXL Pista as a result.
Hope your little speeding issue is resolved.
Best
I've requested an AX22 for my birthday, but will most likely receive driving manuals (not sports cars) from all my well meaning friends. The ticket issue has been continued until May 1, while I serve discovery on the officer to ascertain the accuracy of the Custom Pro Lidar gun. Lidar technology has a bit of a problem in that the operator can manipulate the speed by trickery. I have succeded in the past with this defense, but this will be a bit more difficult, as 120 mph is viewed worse than car jacking, bank robbery and sodomy.
03-09-2006, 08:28 AM
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Hmm, there is a recently released DVD that's an anthology of all those old Highway Safety Films from the 50's and 60's. Obviously you need a refresher!
Let's see: "Death On The Highway"(65'), "Wheels of Tragedy" (63'), "Carrier or Killer" (64')..... When's that birthday again Jim?
Let's see: "Death On The Highway"(65'), "Wheels of Tragedy" (63'), "Carrier or Killer" (64')..... When's that birthday again Jim?
Originally Posted by JJayB
Jean
I've requested an AX22 for my birthday, but will most likely receive driving manuals (not sports cars) from all my well meaning friends. The ticket issue has been continued until May 1, while I serve discovery on the officer to ascertain the accuracy of the Custom Pro Lidar gun. Lidar technology has a bit of a problem in that the operator can manipulate the speed by trickery. I have succeded in the past with this defense, but this will be a bit more difficult, as 120 mph is viewed worse than car jacking, bank robbery and sodomy.
I've requested an AX22 for my birthday, but will most likely receive driving manuals (not sports cars) from all my well meaning friends. The ticket issue has been continued until May 1, while I serve discovery on the officer to ascertain the accuracy of the Custom Pro Lidar gun. Lidar technology has a bit of a problem in that the operator can manipulate the speed by trickery. I have succeded in the past with this defense, but this will be a bit more difficult, as 120 mph is viewed worse than car jacking, bank robbery and sodomy.
03-09-2006, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior
Hmm, there is a recently released DVD that's an anthology of all those old Highway Safety Films from the 50's and 60's. Obviously you need a refresher!
Let's see: "Death On The Highway"(65'), "Wheels of Tragedy" (63'), "Carrier or Killer" (64')..... When's that birthday again Jim?
Let's see: "Death On The Highway"(65'), "Wheels of Tragedy" (63'), "Carrier or Killer" (64')..... When's that birthday again Jim?
I hope the cells have cable and we can see Vanishing Point (1971) reruns.
Are you going to post video?
03-28-2006, 12:38 PM
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Hi,
my first post....new to the Porsche world
I was looking at the car mentioned in the first post and consider buying it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...mMakeTrack=true
Could I have some opinions.
As some backround, I have a couple of fun cars but I can never leave them alone. They mostly sit in shops being worked on. Maybe I can leave the Andial alone and enjoy it as is.
Thanks
CW
my first post....new to the Porsche world
I was looking at the car mentioned in the first post and consider buying it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...mMakeTrack=true
Could I have some opinions.
As some backround, I have a couple of fun cars but I can never leave them alone. They mostly sit in shops being worked on. Maybe I can leave the Andial alone and enjoy it as is.
Thanks
CW
03-28-2006, 01:07 PM
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Jay, Toby, and Jean,
this is the best most entertaining and informative post in years and I think
Toby's car has finally met his match > JJay's 3.8 Andial, what a beast!!
thanks guys!
Marty Kaye (recovering 993TT addict)
this is the best most entertaining and informative post in years and I think
Toby's car has finally met his match > JJay's 3.8 Andial, what a beast!!
thanks guys!
Marty Kaye (recovering 993TT addict)