Gordon Attar

Crown Vic
The expert on comparing the C2s,C4s and TT is Very Sideways(owned all 3) and a regular contributor, unfortunately he is on holiday this week, I will send him a PM to add his input.
The TT is plenty nimble enough on rough back roads, rides fine as well, though you will obviously find the C2's a little lighter than the equivalent 4 wheel drive versions. From my perspective the TT weight distribution feels perfect compared to my 964C2 which by comparison(in retrospect )feels that the weights definately behind you. Yes the car feels relatively heavier but that doesnt matter as we have almost 50% more power.
I think you would find the C2s and C4s a better bet than the std version as they have a wider track, are lowered and the C4s has the big reds added, they are definately the sexiest and the most sought after of the 993's. The one reason for going for the 2s would be if you like tracking and 'controlled drifting' but both are very sure footed.
From recent conversations with VS if you are looking for a daily all weather driver in a colder climate then the C4S is the one to have if you have a heavy foot. If you are going to use it as a 2nd/3rd car and mainly fair weather driving then it has to be the Turbo.

Regards
Gordon

Ps since the 964 there is no real concern about them being tail happy

Rassel

Agree, the C4S was more attractive when there was a bigger price difference.

?!!!

Without a doubt! Completly agree. The 993RS has turned into a collectors car. Also it is not road legal in the U.S

Hm... this thought has occured to me. However -98 993TT, 450hp = 964RS? Your friends car must have been a steal..

Are you talking about any recent experiences here Stummel.......?

Crownvic

Hi Stummel,

So you don't recommend that I buy this RS?
If it is sharper and nimbler than a TT, I don't mind paying the same, but won't pay a substantial premium above TT prices...


As you so rightly said about your friend's 964RS: "It is all about driving sensation and a good feeling". Isn't the 964RS priced even higher than the 993RS? All things being equal (obviously they're not) I prefer the 993 body sculpture.

Cheers German Style

/Vic

Stummel

Hi Vic,

I do not know the market and the prices in the US.

The 964 RS is about the same as the 993 RS over here but I do not know exactly as I am not in the market for either one.
I too prefer the 993 body style.

If you can get the yellow 993 RS in the pic for about the price of a 993 tt and you do not need more power (yet) I would go for it for the backroads.
But please do not put any back seats in it. If you want that kind of car certainly go for the turbo.

You will not loose any big amount of money so just try it. If it is not right go and buy the next model.

Cheers German Beer...

Crownvic

Hi Gordon,

I'll definitely appreciate Very Sideway's input when he gets back, however drifting isn't my bag although my brother used to drift our 356 in hairpins (low speeds in those days).

My main question was whether the wider S body would be better on a C2 than the narrow body. From an outside perspective I would have thought that the Turbo body was mostly necessary to glue to the road all that excess power and might be overkill on a NA car. I appreciate that a wider car will hunker down better, but wouldn't a narrow bodied C2 preserve some of the driving sensations of older Porsches? Slight tail-heaviness without spin-outs sounds like the best of both worlds when such sensations used to come at the expense of unexpected U-turns.

My foot is heavy but I know how to lighten it up in the rain, so I think I could behave properly in a TT especially as the C4S flirts with TT prices!

My evolving shortlist is narrowing down to a C2 (narrow) versus a TT, versus an RS. The C2 would be a great "bang for the buck" low mile ride, the TT would be a great "bang at any price" higher mile ride, while the RS might be the ultimate ride but at possibly way too hefty a price for a car in decent condition.

/Vic

Crownvic

Hi Stummel,

I get it. You wish you had gotten your friends factory 450hp TT. So that is the car you recommend? However, I may wait until I get bored with the stock engine first.

I'm not into high speed autobahn rides, as local law enforcement would lock me up for life if I really opened up a TT on the highway. So I must get my thrills in other ways. Imagine you lived in the hills of Bavaria and that your auto was banned from the Autobahn (no pun intended).

Would you still go for a TT - or settle for a "weaker" RS ???

/Vic
______________________________________
* * * Boxers must stay light on their feet * * *

fc-racer

Crownvic, regardless of what we tell you, the only way to tell is to actually drive the cars. What is fun for one person may be boring to another and what is rock hard to one person may be soft to another. Go out and arrange test drives in all these cars. I bought a 964 Turbo several years ago with the shortest of test drives because I wanted that car, I loved the body style. I wish I had driven it more because it really wasn't the car I thought it was. I went based on what I read and what people told me, but the reality did not measure up to what I read. My recommendation, in alignment with many of the above, is to go out and drive the cars and come to your own conclusions based on how it feels to you. The Turbo and the NA cars are so different, it's difficult to even compare the two IMHO.

DTampa

Cownvic,

I currently own a 97 TT and a 97 C2. I love both cars but I agree with fc-racer that they are very different. The C2 is lighter and nimbler. With the TT, the weight and the power are always present. The TT is easier to drive fast on the track. C2 is a better daily driver given the cool-down requirements for the TT. You need to drive the 993 NAs to see if you like the long gearing as that presents a totally separate experience from the ever-present power of the TT. They are both fun on back roads though I have yet to find a street/road situation where driving fast enough to get an adrenaline rush is safe or advisable. It's really hard to choose a favorite but I guess the fact that I'm selling the C2 to make room for the TT speaks for itself.

Hope that helps a little.

Crownvic

Hi FcRacer,

Sorry to hear about your mishap in buying your first P-car, I hope it helps me and others avoid the same mistake. I will definitely give them a tough going through the moves and be critical when buying.

Is there a person/shop/place anywhere (ie Europe or USA) where I could go and get "fixed up" with the right car? I've noticed a shop in England recommended by another Rennlist member where many of the cars they sell are cars they've already sold to former customers and have taken in as trades on other Porsches. It seems that I might need something like that, or at least somebody to advise me who can see how I like to drive and help focus on the right model. I know there's that fellow with the nice low mile expensive cars (Sloancars?) but I think I need psychological counselling by somebody who is more driver oriented than love object obsessive.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

/ Vic

Crownvic

[QUOTE=DTampa] ...I currently own a 97 TT and a 97 C2. I love both cars but I agree with fc-racer that they are very different. The C2 is lighter and nimbler. With the TT, the weight and the power are always present. The TT is easier to drive fast on the track. C2 is a better daily driver given the cool-down requirements for the TT. You need to drive the 993 NAs to see if you like the long gearing as that presents a totally separate experience from the ever-present power of the TT. They are both fun on back roads though I have yet to find a street/road situation where driving fast enough to get an adrenaline rush is safe or advisable. It's really hard to choose a favorite but I guess the fact that I'm selling the C2 to make room for the TT speaks for itself... [QUOTE]

Hi DTampa,

Why is it that almost all of those who used to have a C2 or C4 have happily traded them in for a TT, but never the reverse? The closest I've heard of the opposite is the fellow in Germany who traded in his 993TT for a 964RS - for track use mind you.

I want it to be a daily driver, and to be nimble. So based upon your post, I guess I will want to steer away from the TT and must by all means avoid test driving one: apparently they are so addictive that even though you can't find a place to legally or safely put them through the paces, you get hooked and can no longer live without them.

Maybe it is because they are quite a bit more expensive that few if any ever swap their TT for a C2, or if they do they don't come and brag about it here in the TT forum. Maybe some are hanging out in the 993 forum and have a story or two to tell about what they don't regret from their TT days? Anybody ever hear anything less than elogious about a TT?



/ Vic

Peter S 993tt

Nope

ST

Crownvic, in the twisty sections, the C2 is probably as good as the TT. The C2 certainly has the lighter steering and therefore is easier to work with when chucking it around in the tight sections you mentioned. When pushed hard in fast corners, I believe it is the 4WD rather than the wider rear that really makes a difference when it comes to sticking to the tarmac. Stability I think will really essentially on your suspension set up..the wider track of course will also make a diference. BTW, I fitted a RUF front strut to the C2 and it made a difference too, the turn in became more direct, but that is going off the mark...an altenative may be to supercharge your C2...a friend did that and the difference is phenomenal....not better top end speed but the torque and power in mid band for the winding stretches ...wow...

ST

BTW Crownvic, if you want a daily driver as indicated, forget the RS....it is NOT a daily driver.

Crownvic

Hi ST,

Thanks for chiming in. If the 4wd is what really makes the difference in grip in tight turns, then I may want to find a clean C4 (not C4S). Just maybe it is the wider track and different chassis dynamics which make the TT seem less nimble than the C2. I'll lump the C4S in with the TT as it is pretty much the same except for being NA.

The handling issue separating these cars which remains to be settled is what exactly changes their dynamic performance in stock form (aftermarket mods set aside).

Just maybe, I could get a custom shoe to fit my heavy foot - something like a narrow bodied C4 to which I could add a supercharger. Enough extra power to offset the added weight and mechanical losses of the four wheel drive, retaining the narrow chassis' original 911 handling character, and possibly even saving cash versus a more expensive TT or C4S which wouldn't deliver the same joys in my type of twisty back road use.

I guess what I'm seeking is a family driver that will crank the mustard in a Corsican Rallye (but with Corsicans driving down the road in the other direction!). Tell me if I'm wrong, but to me this dictates the superior precision of a narrower body, even if one cannot take as many G-Forces in high speed unbanked corners. It also might call for the added grip of Porsche's famous 4wd but without the bubble body. It might also help to follow your suggestion of adding a supercharger, not so much for greater high-end speed, but to get an extra surge of torque to help yank her out of the bends?

By the way, do you remember which Supercharger your friend added? I've heard horror stories about some brands frying a good engine. I'll also take your advice, and shall forsake the RS both due to daily driveability and its lack of rear seat. By the way, how much of a premium should one pay for really low miles (ie 15 to 30 thousand miles)? I realize that it can come pretty close to a fresh lightly used car, sort of like a return from a 2-year lease. Less hardship on the wallet later, but maybe too much to outlay up front?

I recently saw a standard C4 for sale with only 15000 miles but they're asking $52k for it... not exactly bang for the buck - so I'll start the hunt for a standard C4 unless a clean and realistically priced used TT comes to market (hint hint Rennlisters who want to change colors).


TIA.

/Vic

Rassel

Vic,

A quick question. Where do you live? Or rather, in what country will you purchase the car?