thomas.rousseau

For me 20-25% drivetrain loss seems incredibly much! What you are saying is that nearly 100 HP just goes to heat in the drivetrain! Is this really possible???
I would say that a normal drivetrain loss is 5-10%.
Could it be due to the 4 wheel drive which is not properly measured on the dyno?

/confused

pstoppani

This is why people should always stick with wheel HP; even manufacturers... Crank HP is purely a marketing/sales number. Wheel HP is reality... wow, that was "deep"

All I care about is that I went from 300 to 360 WHP; it is fast and powerful

VerySideways

I've heard quotes of around 15% for 2wd 993's and 25% for 4wd 993's - ball park figures i guess.

Greg H.

How come there's some guy on the 993 forum with a WRX STI that's claiming 600whp. Can someone explain how they get so much Hp out of an engine 2/3 the size of ours?

Greg H

911/Q45

That's the wonder of the internet Greg, you can claim whatever you want! It's the 21rst century version of "my dad's car is faster than your dad's".

Geoffrey

The last stock block WRX I tuned produced 502 awd hp at 29psi of boost on racing fuel. You can get the power by cranking up the boost. In addition, it has a better cylinder head with 4 valves. These engines can take about 35psi of boost which will I have seen to get in the 550-575 awd hp range, so I believe 600hp is not unattainable with the right setup which would include a stroked engine to 2.6l.

If I'm reading the AFR correctly, at 11.1:1 that is about 1 full point richer than it needs to be and from my experience, the 993TT ignition system tends to have issues with fuel ratios richer than 11.4:1 and tends to misfire. I think you'd see some power increase at leaner ratios with no loss of reliability.

chris walrod

Those tuner cars (subies, Evo's) are quite potent when the boost is turned up, but for how long is the question that lingers in the back of my mine. Intelligently modified 993's should go full bore at vMax for a full tank of fuel without anything melting or falling off. Try to do that in one of these tuner cars

A friend of mine drag raced a VW Beetle (old one) in Pro-Turbo a long time ago. Big ole hair dryer on it, ran in the 9's 1/4 mile. He would just take it home after each event and rebuild the entire engine. Rod bearings and valve springs became typical maintenance for him..

Great dyno results!!! Congrats on a solid upgrade!!

Jean

Pete, congratulations on the upgrade.
The before and after runs are great as far as the gains seen on the dyno!! Absolute numbers don't mean much to me on these dynos, but the variance is really excellent. I am sure on the street is where you will be noticing the change in responsiveness and performance.

It would be interesting to know the difference between the cost of going to stage 1 like you did and the stage 2 like Acropora which has showed such good numbers. Performance-wise, Verysideways, Rassel and yourself should definitely compare notes ideally if you use similar timing devices..

Enjoy it safely.

Woodster

Nirwana, I had almost exact same mods as you (except I had stage 2, ZC
and protomotive software with external boost controller). I like you set-up
better because it is made to work as a team!!! great product, great results
now lets see someones' stage 2 kit results from Kevin!!
MK
BTW, I also did complete clutch, coil, plugs, wires, etc., etc. when I did mine
also--so the labor "got a little high"!!

TB993tt

Congratulations, and thanks for sharing the graphs.

I know where you are coming from re wheel hp vs flywheel hp, but due to the nature of the different loading available on different dynos, even this measure
can be pretty meaningless.
Your 408 factory hp will be maintainable in 6th gear at 6000rpm in 20degC and sea level pressure, unfortunately unless the new found tuned hp is derived and measured in the same way as the factory do it, regardless of what a chassis dyno "power run" may say, there is no guarantee you will have your new found wheel power number under the road conditions described above.

Having said the above, your kit and in particular the tuning done properly by Gunther (with the motor loaded up getting soooo hot that the bumpers/fenders had to be removed to stop them melting) will guarantee that your wheel hp will be there when you are maxing it out

Other ahem..... fixed boost, tweak it on a rolling road and try another power run - "oh look more power" methods may be impressive for those who do not believe/understand the above - but I look forward to some of your comparisons to other more powerful 993tts on the track

In a nutshell - Kevin's Gunther package gets the big from me

Greg H.

TB - Could you explain the above a little more? I understand how you can lose power with motronics under unfavorable circumstances, but why fixed boost?

Greg H.

TB993tt

A set up with Motronic controlling boost (or more accuately air mass which is dependant on temp and atmo pressure) will vary the boost (as can be seen in the dyno plots above) to run as close to knock as possible - it goes up and down as it detects the onset of knock (in conjunction with the timing being varied)

A fixed boost deprives the Motronic of being able to control the air mass so it will resort to timing and then ultimately if conditions warrant it, it will apply a limiter (like a rev limiter) which a few people (including me) have experienced.

So imagine a fixed boost engine which is mapped on a chassis dyno under a certain set of conditions and load - now it is run on the road in very different conditions and higher loads than the dyno mapping run, and you will get firstly the timing being pulled (which means the power number you saw on your chassis dyno power run is reduced significantly) and finally the Motronic will protect the motor by cutting the spark if the fixed boost is giving too big an air mass.

The problem is very few people in the world can tune the Motronic boost feature properly, Gunther is one of them. The packages sold by most euro tuners have their ECUs done by the specialists, RS Tuning do Cargraphic and FVD.

Now Protomotive do fixed boost - I guess because Todd can't work the Motronic boost control, (which is not a slur on him, my guess is the Bosch engineers share the code knowledge sparingly) so Todd does what he does best and has done very successfully for years. I am guessing he maps using his proprietry protocols on his engine dyno using fixed boost. Todd has worked out through vast experience how to map to allow for load and heat conditions therefore maintaining timing and power. Jean may have something to add here

A.Wayne

Long enough to beat 996 GT3 RSR's ( Mitsu-EVO) . If the motor is built right , correctly mapped it will go , they will run v-max for the duration of the race ( a full tank too ) just not as granite as a porsche motor, so it has to be approched differently. The Subies is a different story i have never seen one make the power outputs of the evo and run and last . In So. America these cars run in the same class as 996 gt3R ,RSR's and they put a spanking on them ( close racing ) and by FIA we have to run 53 mm Restrictors because of the turbo's ( I'm almost positive the 996 is running without a restrictor)

It will still see 585 Whp with the restrictor just that you have a reduced RPM range.

LA964RS

Anyone have the stage 2 figures for comparisson?

pstoppani

Okay, did a couple of 3rd gear from 2k to 6k rpm runs: 6 seconds

I'm headed to the track tomorrow where I'll use 100 octane so it can learn on that gas in an agressive driving situation. Then I'll do another dyno run on Tuesday on 100 octane. Stay tuned