Have your 993TT turbochargers failed?
01-06-2016, 10:15 PM
#49
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Sorry first time on the forum . I have a 993 that needs new turbos I still have the OEM k16
But they are shot leaking and have lateral play on the shaft the car has andials 24 that are also with play. The fuel system has been upgraded 72 lb injectors and fuel pump. I plan to install OEM exhaust with the fister 3 mod it also has the chip done by promotive. Have you seen any other 993 with these mods? Thanks for your input
But they are shot leaking and have lateral play on the shaft the car has andials 24 that are also with play. The fuel system has been upgraded 72 lb injectors and fuel pump. I plan to install OEM exhaust with the fister 3 mod it also has the chip done by promotive. Have you seen any other 993 with these mods? Thanks for your input
04-10-2019, 06:56 PM
#50
Car in storage for 7 years big leak..
Hi Kevin, if you have the time, can you advise me on what to do with my turbos?
i found a 95 993 TT ROW, that had been in storage for 6-7 years, no maintained history or info at all, dealt with an estate. Car was well stored and covered so it’s in perfect cosmetic shape. Sent the car to a air cooled specialist down in Miami, to have it inspected and brought back to life. There is a lot of leaking from the turbos, they think I need either rebuild or new ones. Is there something, apart from all the advice on the thread (Porsche filter, oil level, oil spec, etc.), that can help me determine if turbos are shot? Would seem strange for shot turbos at so low mileage, even with bad maintenance.
i found a 95 993 TT ROW, that had been in storage for 6-7 years, no maintained history or info at all, dealt with an estate. Car was well stored and covered so it’s in perfect cosmetic shape. Sent the car to a air cooled specialist down in Miami, to have it inspected and brought back to life. There is a lot of leaking from the turbos, they think I need either rebuild or new ones. Is there something, apart from all the advice on the thread (Porsche filter, oil level, oil spec, etc.), that can help me determine if turbos are shot? Would seem strange for shot turbos at so low mileage, even with bad maintenance.
Everyday I open my emails and receive question asking why there is oil dripping from the turbochargers. The second question is, my car is smoking, how can I fix it. It would be extremely foolish for me to say that the turbochargers have failed and that they need to be rebuilt or replaced. The truth is, it takes a few questions in order to try to trouble-shoot the situation.
1) Without a doubt, if your cars starts smoking and puddles appear on your garage floor after an oil/filter change, the likely cause is the installation of a MAHLE Original Equipment Manufacture oil filter on the engine.. The part number is OC 213. AirKuhl has a great picture of his car parked in his garage with two puddles on both sides of the engine. He might post them. The other fault is that the oil level is/was hard to see during the fill up and the oil level is now to high. The oil has gotten hot and expanded. There is too much oil in the sump tank and engine case, I make the recommendation to run below the 1/2 way mark on the dip stick.
Many have asked what the actual reason for the leakage or why the car is smoking. If someone installs a Mahle filter, inside of the filter there is a bypass spring and diaphram. This diaphram/valve fails when the engine is shut off (this is a faulty filter design, it is/was corrected by Porsche, please buy a new filter from your Porsche dealer). [I must state that Mahle filters are very good, and I run them on all my other Porsches, but not on the 993TT] As the engine/oil cools, oil seeps past the spring loaded valve.. Oil is drained from the oil tank which is located in the right quarter panel. Through gravity, the oil makes its way from a higher tank level, through the oil filter (the one on the engine), then into the engine case.. As this oil level rises, it will backup through the turbo scavenge lines and raise the level inside of the turbocharger. The sealing rings in the turbocharger have gaps.. Oil freely passes these gaps and will spill into the turbine housing, and also make it's way past the heat shield and drip down the bearing housing to the floor.
One typically has a few hundred miles to cure this problem before carbon builds up in the seal area and heat shield are. Rapid wear occurs to the sealing ring, from carbon cutting like diamonds to sealing surfaces. Basically your non-failed turbochargers will turn into wear failed turbo's in need of repair.
2) My car has Porsche filters and the oil level is closer to the 1st mark vs the upper mark. I would recommend that you change the factory oil filter on the engine, because it could be damaged from the installation. You or your mechanic could have crushed the flimsy filter when installing, hey it has happened to me..
The next instructions would be to remove the plastic inlet pipes that are hose clamped to the inlet side of the compressor, or aluminum housing. This is not the rubber hoses that run to the intercooler. If you have oil puddling in the plastic pipe or dripping out of the compressor housing. You have a high likelyhood of failure caused by wear to the sealing rings on the turbine side (hot side). Another dead giveaway is the actual color of the aluminum compressor wheel. If it looks like burnt chocolate, oil has been passed through the seals and now is pressurized and pumped into the intercooler. In this cycle, if the throttle is shut, the oil now is recirculated with boost pressure through the bypass valve. The air then enters the turbocharger, the compressor wheel now gets slimmed with oil..
This is a warning, your turbocharged engine, needs good fuel, and high octane to run at maximum levels. If oil is introduced and is force fed into your engine as a mist, the actual octane rating of your fuel is lowered. Detonation occurs more easily. The knock sensors pull timing and boost as a result. Carbon builds up on valves and valve stems.. And on piston tops.. Which increases the compression ratio of your engine, thus causing detonation...
2a) As our engines age and get miles on them, leakdown numbers become more and more important. Combustion gases that would normally pass through the exhaust valves are now passing piston rings. This will pressurize the engine case and make it difficult for the oil that passes through the turbochargers to be scavanged by the sump pump. Oil is then blown up into the sump tank vent lines. This then makes it way into the engine combustion process. Many tuners will often plug off the vents on the turbo sump tanks to prevent this from happening.
2b) On some engines, with all things checked and re-checked. Installing 996TT anti-check valves that screw into the top of the turbocharger bearing housings, along with the installation of the 996TT style, scavenge lines that run from the turbo sump tanks to the scavenge pump. These lines have a inverted "P" trap to prevent the migration of oil. It is my opinion that both systems have to be used, check valves and new sump lines.
One more important note: When installing new turbochargers make sure that you have the shop install Porsche oil filters, you may even have to purchase them yourself. It's sad, to see things repeat themselves due to a $15 filter..
1) Without a doubt, if your cars starts smoking and puddles appear on your garage floor after an oil/filter change, the likely cause is the installation of a MAHLE Original Equipment Manufacture oil filter on the engine.. The part number is OC 213. AirKuhl has a great picture of his car parked in his garage with two puddles on both sides of the engine. He might post them. The other fault is that the oil level is/was hard to see during the fill up and the oil level is now to high. The oil has gotten hot and expanded. There is too much oil in the sump tank and engine case, I make the recommendation to run below the 1/2 way mark on the dip stick.
Many have asked what the actual reason for the leakage or why the car is smoking. If someone installs a Mahle filter, inside of the filter there is a bypass spring and diaphram. This diaphram/valve fails when the engine is shut off (this is a faulty filter design, it is/was corrected by Porsche, please buy a new filter from your Porsche dealer). [I must state that Mahle filters are very good, and I run them on all my other Porsches, but not on the 993TT] As the engine/oil cools, oil seeps past the spring loaded valve.. Oil is drained from the oil tank which is located in the right quarter panel. Through gravity, the oil makes its way from a higher tank level, through the oil filter (the one on the engine), then into the engine case.. As this oil level rises, it will backup through the turbo scavenge lines and raise the level inside of the turbocharger. The sealing rings in the turbocharger have gaps.. Oil freely passes these gaps and will spill into the turbine housing, and also make it's way past the heat shield and drip down the bearing housing to the floor.
One typically has a few hundred miles to cure this problem before carbon builds up in the seal area and heat shield are. Rapid wear occurs to the sealing ring, from carbon cutting like diamonds to sealing surfaces. Basically your non-failed turbochargers will turn into wear failed turbo's in need of repair.
2) My car has Porsche filters and the oil level is closer to the 1st mark vs the upper mark. I would recommend that you change the factory oil filter on the engine, because it could be damaged from the installation. You or your mechanic could have crushed the flimsy filter when installing, hey it has happened to me..
The next instructions would be to remove the plastic inlet pipes that are hose clamped to the inlet side of the compressor, or aluminum housing. This is not the rubber hoses that run to the intercooler. If you have oil puddling in the plastic pipe or dripping out of the compressor housing. You have a high likelyhood of failure caused by wear to the sealing rings on the turbine side (hot side). Another dead giveaway is the actual color of the aluminum compressor wheel. If it looks like burnt chocolate, oil has been passed through the seals and now is pressurized and pumped into the intercooler. In this cycle, if the throttle is shut, the oil now is recirculated with boost pressure through the bypass valve. The air then enters the turbocharger, the compressor wheel now gets slimmed with oil..
This is a warning, your turbocharged engine, needs good fuel, and high octane to run at maximum levels. If oil is introduced and is force fed into your engine as a mist, the actual octane rating of your fuel is lowered. Detonation occurs more easily. The knock sensors pull timing and boost as a result. Carbon builds up on valves and valve stems.. And on piston tops.. Which increases the compression ratio of your engine, thus causing detonation...
2a) As our engines age and get miles on them, leakdown numbers become more and more important. Combustion gases that would normally pass through the exhaust valves are now passing piston rings. This will pressurize the engine case and make it difficult for the oil that passes through the turbochargers to be scavanged by the sump pump. Oil is then blown up into the sump tank vent lines. This then makes it way into the engine combustion process. Many tuners will often plug off the vents on the turbo sump tanks to prevent this from happening.
2b) On some engines, with all things checked and re-checked. Installing 996TT anti-check valves that screw into the top of the turbocharger bearing housings, along with the installation of the 996TT style, scavenge lines that run from the turbo sump tanks to the scavenge pump. These lines have a inverted "P" trap to prevent the migration of oil. It is my opinion that both systems have to be used, check valves and new sump lines.
One more important note: When installing new turbochargers make sure that you have the shop install Porsche oil filters, you may even have to purchase them yourself. It's sad, to see things repeat themselves due to a $15 filter..
04-11-2019, 01:33 PM
#51
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Diagnostics, Diagnostics, and then Diagnostics..
First thing is to check the engine mounted oil filter AND verify the engine oil weight. Is it Mobil 0W40?? If so, you will have nothing but failures. If you don't know, drop the oil and put in Mobil VTwin >then pull the inlet piping to the turbochargers. Does oil pour out of them. If so>> you will need to pull the intercooler and inlet pipes and clean/remove the oil.
Once you have cleaned the oil. Start the engine and bring it up to temperature. You should not see any oil leaking and/or oil smoking. Check the oil level. It should be at the First Mark.
Next, put the car on the lift or high enough to pull the turbocharger sump tank plugs and drain the oil out of them. Make sure that the car is level ad monitor the oil over a 24 hour period. If you get more than 3 to 4 ounces draining out of the sump tanks, you have a few issues. Hydraulic lifter seal are worn, and a fail oil filter bypass seal.
In 24 hours you can reinstall the plugs and start the engine and drive the car. You should have no oil issues. When you have put 100 miles on the car, there should be no oil in the inlet duct or intercooler. If oil is present>>you turbochargers seals have failed.
Engine leakdown number are a required diagnostic datapoint. What is the health of the engine?
First thing is to check the engine mounted oil filter AND verify the engine oil weight. Is it Mobil 0W40?? If so, you will have nothing but failures. If you don't know, drop the oil and put in Mobil VTwin >then pull the inlet piping to the turbochargers. Does oil pour out of them. If so>> you will need to pull the intercooler and inlet pipes and clean/remove the oil.
Once you have cleaned the oil. Start the engine and bring it up to temperature. You should not see any oil leaking and/or oil smoking. Check the oil level. It should be at the First Mark.
Next, put the car on the lift or high enough to pull the turbocharger sump tank plugs and drain the oil out of them. Make sure that the car is level ad monitor the oil over a 24 hour period. If you get more than 3 to 4 ounces draining out of the sump tanks, you have a few issues. Hydraulic lifter seal are worn, and a fail oil filter bypass seal.
In 24 hours you can reinstall the plugs and start the engine and drive the car. You should have no oil issues. When you have put 100 miles on the car, there should be no oil in the inlet duct or intercooler. If oil is present>>you turbochargers seals have failed.
Engine leakdown number are a required diagnostic datapoint. What is the health of the engine?
04-30-2020, 12:05 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
10-05-2020, 11:31 AM
#54
More Turbo Questions
New to the TT world. Only had mine a month or so.
My questions are....I have some oil in the intercooler but no smoke on start up. The research I have done is that a oil tank check valve will help correct this. True or False? Are there any other issues could cause oil in the intercooler but no smoke at start up?
The comment made about Mobil 1 0-40 is interesting. What about Mobil 1 15-50 with a zinc additive?
I am planning on doing the diagnostics over the winter when I'll be driving less. That will tell me more.
JC 96 TT
My questions are....I have some oil in the intercooler but no smoke on start up. The research I have done is that a oil tank check valve will help correct this. True or False? Are there any other issues could cause oil in the intercooler but no smoke at start up?
The comment made about Mobil 1 0-40 is interesting. What about Mobil 1 15-50 with a zinc additive?
I am planning on doing the diagnostics over the winter when I'll be driving less. That will tell me more.
JC 96 TT
10-06-2020, 10:35 PM
#55
Thank you very much.. I read and re read your post.. odd how it maybe just an oil filter.. my inner cooler is drenched and fist thing that popped into my head was over pressurized crack case. but I had the turbos rebuilt and changed the oil with that type of filter. I have seveal question to ask. is there a good tine I may call you?
Thank you once again and hopefully we can talk and help me on my way to driving...
Thank you once again and hopefully we can talk and help me on my way to driving...
10-10-2020, 08:43 PM
#56
kevin,
I just changed my oil with Porsche OEM filters, cleaned turbo charger sumps, cleaned air inlet side where the oil is leaking from. cleand out my innercooler full of oil. I used moble 1 20 50 wt oil. started it up with out the inner cooler and I can still see the oil spitting up the turbocharger outlets. what would cause the crack case to have that much pressue. car has 100k miles, the car has not been abused. I am stuck.. help a brother out.. what do you think it may be? Logic tell me if I install the 996TT check valves that only prevents oil from feeding form the top is the oil return back to engine that is forcing oil back into the turbos. but why on the air inlet side..
I just changed my oil with Porsche OEM filters, cleaned turbo charger sumps, cleaned air inlet side where the oil is leaking from. cleand out my innercooler full of oil. I used moble 1 20 50 wt oil. started it up with out the inner cooler and I can still see the oil spitting up the turbocharger outlets. what would cause the crack case to have that much pressue. car has 100k miles, the car has not been abused. I am stuck.. help a brother out.. what do you think it may be? Logic tell me if I install the 996TT check valves that only prevents oil from feeding form the top is the oil return back to engine that is forcing oil back into the turbos. but why on the air inlet side..
