TB993tt

Does anyone know anything about the claimed 580hp CTR2 which was shown in that Texas Ruf open day recently, I asked the question about the engine spec but short of the usual "If Ruf says its 580 then...." line there were no takers. Presuming it to be a Motronic car (especially after learning the interesting stuff above about the TAG system) then without twin plug I can't see being much over the 520 mark being possible ?

dbf73

Isn't twin plugging pretty straightforward? The hardest most expensive part is having to pull the engine and remove the heads for machining for the second plug. If you already have it apart for other reasons, I understand the machining is only several hundred $. Add a 964/993 NA twin distributor, 964/993 twin coil/ignitor pack, xtra plug wires and an Andial signal splitter and yer in business. Only thing left is remapping (boost/advance) to take advantage of the twin sparks.

or what am I missing?

TB993tt

I understood it is the last bit that proves a stumbling block if you stick with the factory system.

LAT

I don't believe a non-sport CTR-2 is any lighter than a stock 993TT. Also, a Turbo R has been tested at over 500 ft-lbs of torque, so it's very similar to the CTR-2.

Bill, the best information I can gather is that the CTR-2 is 3,045 lbs. the CTR-2 Sport is 2,976 lbs (quite an achievement to lose 69 lbs and add the widebody), a stock 993TT is 3,395. Therefore (again) the 10% weight advantage the regular CTR-2 has over the Turbo R will make up the difference in the ET/MPH the cars will turn.

ca993twin

I'm far from an expert, but I've always seen stock 993TT shown as 3307 pounds.

Bill S.

I don't know about 3,045 lbs. Here's what Ruf told me when I asked them if a CTR-2 was faster than a 996 R Turbo:

"The CTR 2 has the same bhp than the Rturbo (520 bhp) but it cannot be faster because the Rturbo is much lighter."

To me, this indicates that the R&T test may have been using a twin-plug/twin-injector car.

LAT

I have the R&T issue and they state weight at 3,045 for the CTR-2 narrow body.

Yes, the car was the TAGtronic but they were using 91 pump oct. gasoline.

Bill S.

That's what I suspected. CTR-2 buyers who bought the car based on the R&T performance numbers will be disappointed when they find their non-TAGtronic car cannot hit 133.7 MPH on 91 pump gas, as implied in the article.

P.S. I was almost one of those buyers until I felt the car's acceleration and decided to inspect the engine. The extra spark plug and injector holes were plugged.

LAT

I would consider that assumption to be only that untill someone puts rubber to the ashphalt and proves you right or wrong.

The fact it was 91 octane gas and that R&T used and that it was Ruf that made the decision to go to single plug even on the 580 HP Sport version afater leaving the TAGtronic a safe bet that you are not correct in your assumption.

Anyone out there want to take their car and add proof to this debate.

Cheers.

Rob 97 993c2

While we are talking about Ruf and Turbo R mods, anyone want to compare the TurboR package to a stock TT versus a chip and doing hybrid turbos for around the same output (approx 500hp, 520lb). Im surprised more people here have not done a turboR conversion given how people look to Ruf as a deity.

LAT

given how people look to Ruf as a deity

I am not sure if you are baiting with this comment or what you objective is, but I can tell you that the people I know that know Ruf personaly speak very highly of his ethics and customer service. For example I know of a 1997 CTR-2 where the Mag wheels were found to be cracked after 7 years and Ruf replaced them at no charge, freight only, not the original owner to boot. Try that with most of the other tuners out there.

As far as being at the top of the mountain, no man lasts there forever, but it is fair and just to admire anyone that has made it to the top and stayed there as long as Ruf has.

There will always be someone faster, richer, stornger, smarter and to chase that ellusive goal indefinety is a fools game. Ruf produce a very good product and he stand behind it, unlike the recent tread on the Pff dealer in the US.

The cost of the Turbo R conversion may be an obstacle to some people don't you think.

Bill S.

At all the track events I've been to, only one modified 993 TT beat my Turbo R. That was an Andial 3.6 twin-plug.

I'm speaking with a CTR2 owner now regarding their thoughts on the twin-plug issue. I'll let you know what I hear.

JJayB

dfarrow

Re: twin plugging a turbo is more complicated than a N/A. The devil is in the details, like who makes a motroic OBD II ECU? The cats need a new O2 sensor boss relocated as the distributor now interfers with the Cats when you install the twin plug distributor. The average tunner doesn't have a clue and usually cobbles up the job hammers a hugh dimple in the sheet metal for clearance.

Re: 580 hp CTR 2. Steve Beddor has the most developed CTR2 sport in the USA. He does development for RUF. His car weighs in at around 3000 lbs. Based upon my track encounters with Steve, I say 580 is a realistic number but then again he has some one off stuff, like boost controled water injection for his intercoolers, different cams and who knows what else.

The TAGtronic was the ecu the factory GT2 used in the twin plug race cars. Many race teams replaced the TAG with the Theilert programable units for some of the reasons mentioned plus there is no future support which is necessary in a street car.

Rob 97 993c2

bill - i wasnt trying to bait anyone, or be mean spirited. Ive always been a Ruf fan. But was curious as to exactly how the turboR compares to all the alternative mods that everyone here is contemplating such as hybrids, etc. As Im intending to do a chip and turbos, i wanted to consider all options and their relative value.

Bill S.

Hi Rob. I didn't take it like that at all.

I'd recommend you get 0-60, 0-100 and 1/4-mile time and speed before you invest. HP/TQ is not a good measure of performance. The Ruf cars are very fast. My "490 HP" car has beaten 600 HP+ cars. Remember that Ruf replaces Turbos, cats, cams, oil cooler, air filter, fuel pressure regulator, ECU and others engine parts. The car redlines at 7200 RPM. That speedo video shows how fast the car really is.

BTW, I heard back from my CTR2 contact. He says his 580 hp CTR2 with single plug feels the same with pump gas or racing gas. However, he has a very developed CTR2, as JJB mentioned. So, I'm still not sure how much dual-plug helps with 91 octane. JJB, any thoughts?

Here's a picture of a Ruf tech making my Turbo R...