I thought I did drop it. How old are you, 10?

 

Goose,

Well, you started this my friend by making several derogatory remarks to me from the get-go, without provocation. Maybe you’re having a bad day, I am not sure, but your attitude is not normal for this board.

I simply stated what I believe to be facts that I either have personally experienced, or what I have heard from Steve and many other people on this board for several years. And, my remarks were supported by two other people in this thread.

As stated several times on this board, the headers made by Porsche are very good for a TT street-car, and the only real reason to replace them is for racing. Adding headers usually moves the power-band up to the higher RPMs, something we typically do not want for a street-car. Most are looking for more torque in the lower RPM range. That’s why a lot of people order Kevin’s Hybrid Turbos as well. They boost the low-range torque.

Secondly, again, several on this board has gone out and purchased the “Race CATS’, only to be very disappointed. I haven’t monitored this board as close as I used to, so I don’t know if there has been any real improvements in the past year or so. It was a hell of a lot of money spent for little, if any gain. As stated before, when they were delivered from FVD, I took them over to Rennsport Systems and Steve tested them on the flow bench along side my stock CATS. The flow numbers were exactly the same. I had them installed, and I saw very little difference. Certainly not worth the $2,400 I paid for them. Live and learn.

Also, several with modified cars have replaced their CATS with bypass pipes with very good results in the lower RPM region. It increases the torque significantly.

I haven’t attacked you in any way, or made childish derogatory remarks to you, and would appreciate if you would refrain from doing the same. That isn’t what this board is all about. It's about learning and exchanging information. This includes what and what doesn't give you the best bang for the buck.

Have a great evening!

Rick

www.993TT.com

 

All the top German race teams and tuners swap out the cats even for low states of tune these are for engine dyno developed engines, so unless they are all incompetant or (if one is being cynical) they just want to fleece their customers for a few extra $$ then logic would suggest that the sport cats do in fact reduce back pressure and help the torque curve on a modified engine.
I note that Andial use stock cats, even on their 570hp creations, this has always confused me since they are very reputable. I would love to hear Steve W's take on this, and how relevant the "flow tests" are ?

 

I appreciate everbodies help. Did not mean to start WWIII over headers.

 

Rick,

This is the last post from me with reference to this issue. Reading all the posts from me and you, I do not see how my remarks would be derogatory or intended to offend you, but rather stating a matter of personal opinion which everyone on this Board has a right to express.

The Board comprises of more then just three individual suggestions or otherwise expressed professional or personal opinions. With all due respect to Kevin and Steve and their expertise appreciated even by me, I fail to see how this would preclude me from my personal off or on road 20 year experience with Porsches and many other cars to state my views and suggestions.

As to what is adherent to the standards of this Board, I feel that remarks such as "What ever floats your boat" are infect less then appreciated at least by me and create unwanted replays filled with cynical remarks.

Nevertheless, I agree with you in that respect that this board is intended for information purposes and trying to save time, money and the unknown about our cars. With that in mind our opinions and criticism of each other is not all unhealthy but rather creates venue on which, I think this Board has established itself - Sharing information of professional and personal knowledge.

I hope we can still be friends.

Regards,

Goose.

 

I'd like to know more about the flow test as well. I wonder if the FVD just rebadged the OE cats instead of using a real 100 cell cat. I'd find it hard to believe that a 100 cell cat flows the same as a 300-400 cell OE cat.

 

If Steve pops up he can explain it, as I was very surprised as well with the results. But after I put them on and didn't feel any difference, it confirmed what Steve saw. The Racing CATS was the last performance item I had added to the TT.

Maybe it was a bad set of CATS (if there is such a thing). Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled after I laid-out $2,400 for these. All of the other modifications yielded significant results except for these CATS.

Cheers!

Rick

www.993TT.com

 

Hi:


My personal rule is not participating in threads that lose their civil tone,....

There is no question that everyone has an opinion and is free to express it, here or anywhere else. Its what makes us unique in that respect.

I'll not comment further on this subject other than to offer 2 things:

1) Flow testing the stock OEM cats gave 354 cfm on our flowbench. Testing the brand new FVD 100 cell cats gave the same numbers. As I was rather surprised at the results, I retested both cats with the same result. In terms of exhaust flow, I am unable to tell you exactly how that relates to power output as we only use the flow bench for modifying heads and intake manifolds. The engine dyno speaks the truth on actual power output.

2) Testing a 993 TT with 100 cell cats gave no measurable improvements on a chassis dyno. You can draw your own conclusions and choose what you wish to believe,...

Lastly,............I have to say that the Porsche aftermarket is fraught with people and vendors who offer & sell things just to make a profit without any regard or concern if something actually works as claimed. Once again, everyone is free to choose what and who they wish to believe, but I'd reiterate that the profit incentives are VERY strong and some folks play around with the facts,....

Ultimately, its your dime.

 

There is also the "I bought it, therefore it must be good" syndrome.

 

Steve thats a good self imposed rule. on the flip side I would like to say that both Rick and Goose got ahold of themselves before it got outa hand though and for that I would commend them both. Good job Gentlemen.

 

Nawww, it was just two bull-headed guys in the middle of the street in an old-fashioned Western gunfight. We both missed and had a beer!! LOL

Cheers!!

Rick

www.993TT.com

 

I'll drink to that! Cheers!

Goose.

 

Thanks for all your help. Sorry about starting any controversy. I talked to Bob Brooks and he said that no change needs to be made to the headers or the cats. He did say I should bypass the mufflers. He says with the hybrid turbos and ecu reprogramming I should get 525hp to the crankshaft and about 25% less than that to the wheels.

The car went to the shop today 7/6, I will let you all know the results. Wish me luck.

 

Ruf uses free-flow cats on the Turbo R. From my discussions with Ruf, this was necessary to obtain the desired HP and TQ.

I asked Ruf if I could continue to use my stock CATS. He said I could, but he would need to detune the ECU for less HP and TQ.

The Ruf cats are manufactured by Ruf. The car is much louder with these cats.

 

BTW, a car with no cats at all, FVD ECU, FVD intercooler and FVD turbos is noticeably slower than a Ruf Turbo R.

Also, Ruf claims free-flow mufflers do not make much of a difference and do not require an ECU re-tune.