Careener

My '97 993TT was smoking somewhat badly out of one side of the exhaust when I started up this morning. I had driven the car the day before with no sign of smoke.

The smoke disappeared by the time I had gone a block and did not happen again when I stared up the engine after a 15 minute rest. However, I suspect I'll see it again tomorrow.

Does that sound like a turbo seal problem? If so, how expensive of a repair is that and how urgently do I need to get it done (i.e. should my next drive be straight to the shop)?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Careener:

A few Q's:

Did your smoking begin after an oil change?

How many miles on your car?

Is your oil level mid-point according to the dipstick?

What side is it smoking from?

Careener

Steve,

It was not after an oil change.

30,000 miles on the car. It had a 30k service done about 18 months ago.

The oil level is at midpoint (I checked it about an hour after having last driven the car, if that mattere)

The smoke is on the drivers side.

Kevin

Careener;

If you are extremely worried about it. Jack the right side of the car up and pull the intake boot that enters the turbocharger. LeeR posted some excellent pictures and symptoms of his failed turbochargers. If there is oil in that boot most likely you are starting to see a failure.

If the frequency of smoke at startup increases most likely you are seeing turbocharger problems. Don't panic, you will eventually have to pull the intake boot sooner than later.. to check it out.

Do you do hot shut downs, if you do, heat has most likely cooked the sealing rings thus making oil pass through the seals..

LeeR

Careener, Kevin was very helpful to me. If you need replacement or rebuilding your turbos, Kevin is the man.

Mine was leaking oil, and when removed was full of oil, and shot. Is your cover on under the engine? That might catch the oil dripping and mask the problem, although I'm not sure if it covers the turbos, as my engine cover was off. Attached is what mine looked like dripping oil, and what it looked like after removal. You can see the oil inside the turbo where it should be dry. My turbos failed at 53K miles.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Careener:

As Kevin suggested, take a look inside the intake hoses and see if there is any oil residue in there.

At 30K, I would not be surprised if you need your turbos rebuilt if they were not cooled (idled) for 2-3 minutes before any hot shutdown. That REALLY cooks 'em.

Careener

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm not aware of any hot shutdown -- at least not in the sense of having stomped on the engine shortly before parking. However, the night before the problem, I did notice that the fan was still running about 10 minutes after I had parked. I had never noticed that before.

Careener

I could use more advice. I took the car to a Porsche dealer for diagnosis. They said the spark plugs are clean, so it is not rings or valves and, therefore, must be the turbo.

The service rep says it will cost $5,500 to replace one turbo and he's suggesting I keep driving the car as is since it only smokes for about 1 minute after start-up and the turbos seem to be functioning fine while driving. He says I should do the job later if and when the problem gets worse.

I don't like a car that smokes and, while I don't plan to sell the car anytime soon, it would be tough to sell that way. Any opinions? Also, any suggestions about what else I should do while the engine is out? (Sorry guys, I want to keep it stock).

KRA993tt

Careener,

Wow that is an impressive price quote I can't imagine what that is all about. The engine does not need to come out to replace your turbo-charger and brand new turbo-chargers doesn't even cost half that price. A rebuilt turbo I believe is less than $1000.00. You may want to look for an independent p-car shop in your area and get a second opinion.

viperbob

$5500????? First off, the process of elimination method of diagnosis is stupid. Why didn't they look at the turbos?? Pretty darn easy to tell. It would be cheaper to send your car to me out here in CA, take off both of your Turbos and send them to Kevin for a hybrid rebuild with zero clearnance and then send the car back. That quote is INSANE... There is no justification for that amount of money.

I have a bit of an issue at the moment with one of my turbos. I was parked on a hill in my driveway for a couple of days. When I started, one turbo blew LOTS of smoke. Then I noticed that there was oil leaking from turbine exhaust flange. Started it up again and it smoked for 10 mintues, and smoke was coming out coming out of the wheel well where the oil was burning off the turbo. Now it is fine after numerous startups. More than likely, the oil seal on the turbo is bad (nothing in the intake side though) and oil is draining past the seal when it is on a hill (darn gravity). I was planning to do a turbo mod next week anyway, so not a big deal.....

Kevin

Careener;

If your turbine side sealing rings are shot, you won't see any oil soot on your plugs because the cats will burn up most of the oil. That is why at startup you will see the smoke and nothing after.. However, you need to do some more homework on your situation. I'd grab a friend who can help you inspect the turbochargers, put the car on blocks and have at it... Pull the intake boots and check things for yourself. You can do alot for $5K..

Careener

After I posted, the dealer service rep called me back and said they came to the realization that they could change the turbo without pulling the engine and he lowered the price to $4,800. I asked him why they hadn't pulled the boots to look directly at the turbos and he said that it would cost another $300 of labor to do that, and they were already convinced that it was a turbo issue. Based on what I've learned from you guys (thanks!), I know that the price is way high and the dealer doesn't seem to know what they are doing (large Houston dealership). So, I'm just taking my car back with a $150 inspection charge, will drive/observe it for a while, and come up with another game plan.

ViperBob, I'd love to have you work the car over and have Kevin rebuild the turbos. How much do you think it would cost to ship a car from Houston to your shop?

993tt

I thought my turbos were cooked and was planning to rebuild them but after talking to the guy who is in charge of technical issues at Porsche Sweden I will put the turbos back and see how it works out.

Background:
My car have been standing still in the garage for 4 months. I never had a problem with smoking before. I jacked up the car to do some service and noticed that the left side turbo was leaking oil. I removed the intake pipes and discovered that there was oil in both turbos. At this point I was certain (after consulting this list) that I needed to rebuild my turbos.

So, why not then?
1. Never had problems with smoke before I put the car in the garage.
2. The oils started leeking from the left hand turbo only AFTER I jacked the car up.
3. I had approx 3 litres of oil in my crank house. (important according to the porsche guy, should be around 1 litre)

What happened was this (IMHO)
When I jacked the car up, starting with the front, lots of oil poured back into the crank. Since the turbos on our cars are lower than the engine this oil travelled down (gravity) When it reached the turbos it had nowhere to go but through the piston seals and into the tubine houses. Maybe this was what happened to Viperbob after he parked on that hill side!?

I will report what happened after I get it running again.

/Erik

RC993TT

Careener,

I am in Houston also. I would really like to know the name of the dealer that you were talking to. I have had several p-cars and have dealt with most of them with mixed result. I would recommend PROTECHNIK. They have done engine work for me in the past, and I have been very satisfied with both the work and the pricing. Sam is a local pca sponsor. phone number is 281 879-8861. PM me the name of the dealer if you don't want to identify them here thanks

Careener

RC993TT -- Thanks for the information! I spoke with Sam at PROTECHNIK and he said the problem could be any of several things that could be sorted out with a little more diagnosis. I'll probably start using them for all my service work if I have as good experience with them as you have.

The Porsche dealer I went to is the one that is located very close to PROTECHNIK.

I'm interested in getting involved in some local Porsche activities now that I'm driving a P-car again. Are you plugged in with any groups that could use a new member?