Anyone in NY know/seen this car?
12-30-2003, 12:55 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I looked at the car today. It was in the showroom, which is not especially well lighted or roomy, but I think I got a pretty good look at it.
There is one thing that seriously concerns me. Either it's nothing at all, or it's clear evidence of a serious frontal impact. It got my attention because it's markedly different from my car. Looking in the trunk area behind the carpets and under the spare wheel (looking through the holes in the wheel -- I didn't remove the spare), some of the paint has a VERY rough finish. It is rough under the spare wheel (the eBay picture of the spare wheel area gives a rather poor view of this -- sorry, I didn't have my camera). On the passenger side inner fender, under the carpet, there is an area that begins at the weld just ahead of the shock tower, continues forward approx. 1 foot and extends all the way down (including the main front chassis rail), that has this very rough finish. Ahead of and behind this section, the paint is much smoother, much more similar to my '95 993's finish in this vicinity (not as smooth/glossy as the exterior paint). That weld at the shock tower is also very large and rough. The corresponding weld on the drivers side is also large and rough, though less so. These welds are not as rough-looking on my car.
I don't know whether the later 993s or the TTs are finished differently in this area than the '95s, but you TT owners will be able to answer this. It definitely didn't look right to me, but someone may tell me it's normal. Obviously, if it's not normal, then something major happened here. The sticker under the front lid was in place, and its VIN matched the VIN plate on the dash.
Anyway... It is definitely not a "garage queen" car, but not everyone wants a pristine car.
Exterior:
The black paint is in good shape, but no better than that. I saw none of the usual giveaways of a repaint, e.g., overspray on window trim, tape lines, etc. However, the paint looks like it has been rubbed out quite a bit. There is relatively little orange peel, and there is a LOT of compounding residue around the trim pieces. It's not particularly glossy, though the lighting wasn't great. From a bit of a distance, it looks pretty good. There are many stone chips, though not an excessive number for a 57K car. I saw only one ding, on the right rear fender flare ahead of the wheel. There are a few lightish-but-noticeable scrathes on the front lid, and two or three crudely touched-up big scratches on the 3rd brake light housing. The panels seemed to fit well.
Interior:
The leather is generally in good shape. There is some wear on the driver's seat bolster -- I've seen higher-mileage cars with less and lower-mileage cars with more. The leather looks like it could use a thorough cleaning and conditioning. It isn't dry, but it doesn't look or feel like it's been really well maintained. Oddly, the dash-top leather is noticeably more "grainy" than the rest of the dash and door leather -- I wonder if perhaps it has been replaced (my car has full leather, and the grain is more consistent across the panels). There is a hole on the passenger-door capping where a plug should be. The speaker grille on the driver's door is cracked. There is a center armrest mounted to the tunnel, as well as a phone mount. The stainless sill plates are significantly scuffed. Generally, the interior is in good shape, but needs a little attention. It could probably be made to look very nice without a great deal of effort.
Wheels:
Three of the wheels are in very good condition, but the left rear has serious curb-rash. The Porsche-crest center caps have lost most of their finish -- they look sort of pasty-white. Stupidly, I forgot to take a good look at the tires or brakes.
Service Records:
NONE. They showed me the books; owner's manual, warranty book, and service book (and the CARFAX). The service book showed a delivery date of June '95 ... the car was built in late '96. They said they don't have the original books (and that almost nobody does...), and that those they showed me are "identical" to the originals.
My overall impression is that this is a very average car -- IF the question about the luggage area paint/welds is favorably resolved. Overall, it probably looks better than reading this post would suggest. It may be a relatively inexpensive way into a TT, depending on the winning bid, but I would want a VERY thorough PPI from a Porsche-expert body shop as well as a mechanic.
I can probably get back there to take some pictures, if anyone would like me to.
There is one thing that seriously concerns me. Either it's nothing at all, or it's clear evidence of a serious frontal impact. It got my attention because it's markedly different from my car. Looking in the trunk area behind the carpets and under the spare wheel (looking through the holes in the wheel -- I didn't remove the spare), some of the paint has a VERY rough finish. It is rough under the spare wheel (the eBay picture of the spare wheel area gives a rather poor view of this -- sorry, I didn't have my camera). On the passenger side inner fender, under the carpet, there is an area that begins at the weld just ahead of the shock tower, continues forward approx. 1 foot and extends all the way down (including the main front chassis rail), that has this very rough finish. Ahead of and behind this section, the paint is much smoother, much more similar to my '95 993's finish in this vicinity (not as smooth/glossy as the exterior paint). That weld at the shock tower is also very large and rough. The corresponding weld on the drivers side is also large and rough, though less so. These welds are not as rough-looking on my car.
I don't know whether the later 993s or the TTs are finished differently in this area than the '95s, but you TT owners will be able to answer this. It definitely didn't look right to me, but someone may tell me it's normal. Obviously, if it's not normal, then something major happened here. The sticker under the front lid was in place, and its VIN matched the VIN plate on the dash.
Anyway... It is definitely not a "garage queen" car, but not everyone wants a pristine car.
Exterior:
The black paint is in good shape, but no better than that. I saw none of the usual giveaways of a repaint, e.g., overspray on window trim, tape lines, etc. However, the paint looks like it has been rubbed out quite a bit. There is relatively little orange peel, and there is a LOT of compounding residue around the trim pieces. It's not particularly glossy, though the lighting wasn't great. From a bit of a distance, it looks pretty good. There are many stone chips, though not an excessive number for a 57K car. I saw only one ding, on the right rear fender flare ahead of the wheel. There are a few lightish-but-noticeable scrathes on the front lid, and two or three crudely touched-up big scratches on the 3rd brake light housing. The panels seemed to fit well.
Interior:
The leather is generally in good shape. There is some wear on the driver's seat bolster -- I've seen higher-mileage cars with less and lower-mileage cars with more. The leather looks like it could use a thorough cleaning and conditioning. It isn't dry, but it doesn't look or feel like it's been really well maintained. Oddly, the dash-top leather is noticeably more "grainy" than the rest of the dash and door leather -- I wonder if perhaps it has been replaced (my car has full leather, and the grain is more consistent across the panels). There is a hole on the passenger-door capping where a plug should be. The speaker grille on the driver's door is cracked. There is a center armrest mounted to the tunnel, as well as a phone mount. The stainless sill plates are significantly scuffed. Generally, the interior is in good shape, but needs a little attention. It could probably be made to look very nice without a great deal of effort.
Wheels:
Three of the wheels are in very good condition, but the left rear has serious curb-rash. The Porsche-crest center caps have lost most of their finish -- they look sort of pasty-white. Stupidly, I forgot to take a good look at the tires or brakes.
Service Records:
NONE. They showed me the books; owner's manual, warranty book, and service book (and the CARFAX). The service book showed a delivery date of June '95 ... the car was built in late '96. They said they don't have the original books (and that almost nobody does...), and that those they showed me are "identical" to the originals.
My overall impression is that this is a very average car -- IF the question about the luggage area paint/welds is favorably resolved. Overall, it probably looks better than reading this post would suggest. It may be a relatively inexpensive way into a TT, depending on the winning bid, but I would want a VERY thorough PPI from a Porsche-expert body shop as well as a mechanic.
I can probably get back there to take some pictures, if anyone would like me to.
12-30-2003, 01:00 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Todd. Thank you for that extensive write up. If there is a Porsche I can be your 'eyes' for in Houston please let me know so I can reciprocate.
I'm awaiting a phone call from Formula Motorsports to arrange a PPI appointment.
Again. Thank you!
I'm awaiting a phone call from Formula Motorsports to arrange a PPI appointment.
Again. Thank you!
12-30-2003, 01:12 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Todd,
What a nice, detailed report. I think you must have transposed the years in the delivery/build dates.... built in late 96, delivered June 97? Or built in June 96, delivered late 96? On my car (a VERY early build 3/95) the paint inside of the trunk fender panels is quite smooth with very smooth factory welds, The paint, however is very thin... you can see some of the greyish primer.
What a nice, detailed report. I think you must have transposed the years in the delivery/build dates.... built in late 96, delivered June 97? Or built in June 96, delivered late 96? On my car (a VERY early build 3/95) the paint inside of the trunk fender panels is quite smooth with very smooth factory welds, The paint, however is very thin... you can see some of the greyish primer.
12-30-2003, 01:20 AM
#23
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
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It seems to me that if there had been a good frontal
impact that the sticker underneath the hood would have
been lost. But Todd says its there so the question remains.
Todd great job. Brethren looking out for brethren.
impact that the sticker underneath the hood would have
been lost. But Todd says its there so the question remains.
Todd great job. Brethren looking out for brethren.
12-30-2003, 02:23 AM
#24
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Regarding the sticker under the hood, I smashed the front of my Boxster and bent the hood in the process. The body shop (Golden Hammer in West LA) replaced the hood, and removed the original sticker and put back it on the replacement hood, and you can't really tell that it's been done, as they did a very good job. My point is that just becuase the sticker is there doesn't mean the hood hasn't been replaced.
12-30-2003, 11:29 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for the compliments 
.
Steve,
I didn't transpose the dates -- I was trying to point out the discrepency. The service book said the car was delivered about 18 months before it was built. Pretty neat trick... Anyway, that's why I asked the salesman what the deal was, and he said they didn't have the books that came with the car -- just a set of "correct" books from another, unknown, 993.
Your description of the finish and welding on the inner fenders sounds the same as on my car (5/95 build), and clearly different from the TT for sale.
LeeR,
Interesting... I have heard similar stories. I was almost surprised to see the sticker there, given the rough finish under the carpets.
.
.Steve,
I didn't transpose the dates -- I was trying to point out the discrepency. The service book said the car was delivered about 18 months before it was built. Pretty neat trick... Anyway, that's why I asked the salesman what the deal was, and he said they didn't have the books that came with the car -- just a set of "correct" books from another, unknown, 993.
Your description of the finish and welding on the inner fenders sounds the same as on my car (5/95 build), and clearly different from the TT for sale.
LeeR,
Interesting... I have heard similar stories. I was almost surprised to see the sticker there, given the rough finish under the carpets.
.
12-31-2003, 12:14 AM
#28
Nordschleife Master
I saw a post on the turbo911 board where it sounded like someone was bidding or was already negotiating a deal on that very same car.
http://www.911turbo.com/
Sorry. But rest assured, better cars are out there. Winter brings a lot of good deals in the "frozen" states.
http://www.911turbo.com/
Sorry. But rest assured, better cars are out there. Winter brings a lot of good deals in the "frozen" states.
12-31-2003, 01:58 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Marcus,
Interesting that you've heard nothing. FWIW, I spoke with a guy named John. He seemed nice enough, though not knowledgeable. The place has a "used car atmosphere," but I'm surprised they haven't returned your call.
BTW, does anyone else have any input regarding the inner fender/spare tire well rough-finish paint? I'm very curious about this.
Interesting that you've heard nothing. FWIW, I spoke with a guy named John. He seemed nice enough, though not knowledgeable. The place has a "used car atmosphere," but I'm surprised they haven't returned your call.
BTW, does anyone else have any input regarding the inner fender/spare tire well rough-finish paint? I'm very curious about this.
12-31-2003, 02:12 AM
#30
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Regarding inner fender/spare tire well rough finish paint. I just took a look at mine and it is nicely finished, not rough at all. Sounds like there was repair work done on that car.