88clbsport

I am purchasing a 97 C4S and have heard that the wiring harness and the power steering mechanism/pump are both problem areas on higher mileage 993's. Anything else to look out for would be appreciated. I am having a PPI done, but I have not been able to find too many C4s or C2S drivers with over 55k miles.

The car I am purchasing has over 60k miles and just recently has had the following done to it:
new clutch, new rotors and pads and complete 60k service.
I am wondering the following from the board.

How many miles do you have on your 993 and what major repairs have you had done.


IMO a "normal" car that has been driven for 5-6 years 60k miles would not be given much of a thought. Most Porsche people (myself included) are always looking for cars that seem to average only around 5k miles a year.

Do you think a car with all records and scheduled maintenance that averaged 12k/year as a daily driver is vastly inferior to one that averaged 1/2 the mileage? Let me quantify:

What would you rather have-assuming both have had all regular maintenance and were driven under same conditions?

1996 993 with 39k (6 1/2 years@500miles/month)
PRICE 49K
1996 993 with 78k (" "1000miles/month)
Price 41k

I guess I am trying to get everyones opinions on how much price should be impacted by mileage.

Rolo

I bought mine a month ago. 96 C4S, all books records, clean carfax, 25k I paid 51l for the car. And I love it. Putting RSR's on, Oval tips, having it lowered and looking for a carbon fiber kit to install.

C4S

I recently just purchased by 96 C4S with 50K mi. The car doesn't really have that many major problems. There are obviously some minor issues with the car, but nothing major except for the clutch, which needs to be replaced rather soon. Minor issues included brake work -pads and rotors, alignment, change all fluids, belts- regular maintenance stuff. Also, you should check the suspension and tires, these tend to wear quickly and might need to be replaced.

Another thing that I noticed, was I thought I heard one of the valve lifters making some noise. I changed the oil a few times fairly quickly to "clean" everything out and it's been fine ever since. The way I approach buying my car- was that at 55Kmi- a P car- is just breaking in, assuming it was well maintained.

In regards to the wiring harness and the power steering mechanism/pump problems- I haven't had a problem with these issues, but a good P mechanic should check them. I also spoke to my mechanic about the 4wd drive system and for the most part, the system doesn't really have that many problems. Most of the higher mileage cars, that I looked at- had all the same issues. All of the ones I saw were well maintained, a few better than others, but on the whole they all needed just minor work. Now, I may have been lucky with the cars I saw - but in reality there really aren't that many higher mileage cars out there. Many of the 4S and S cars for sale have almost no mileage on them, and their owners seeking to sell are asking $65K or more for their cars.

1996 993 with 39k (6 1/2 years@500miles/month) PRICE 49K
vs.
1996 993 with 78k (" "1000miles/month) Price 41k


In response to the above, I would purchase the 39K car because I believe the mileage difference is worth the 8K. However, I would argue that the disparity from a 40K car to 80K car is more than $8K. I think an 80K mi 993 car is worth less, perhaps in the 30s. Also, this car is tough to sell because it will likely only be purchased my individuals like us- who aren't afraid to take a car with that mileage. Let's say for argument purposes that the 80K car is worth in the 30s. Now wouldn't you buy the car with the higher mileage?

Always, with any P car- as I'm sure you know, get a good P mechanic to go over it, and get it on a lift. Check for leaks and all usual problems that come with these cars. The reality is, there really aren't that many. Don't really know if any of this helps- just my $.02; best of luck.

E

Bins

IMHO

All of the above...

Price will always be impacted by mileage, no matter what anyone says. Its a psychological issue and each individual has their own perception.

Even a very experienced Porsche owner will always use mileage as a way of devaluing the car they are about to purchase.

In terms of reliability, as long as both cars have been well maintained and looked after by their owners then there will be few issues. Otherwise a low mileage can be far more unreliable than a high mileage and vica versa.

Best thing to do is know your own circumstances (high or low mileage driver) and buy the best in terms of value for money, that you can afford.

Good luck in your purchase.

CAA

Wanted to chime in with my two cents (whatever that is worth). I had a 95 C4 that was pretty much pristine. Bought before the 993 values went into the toilet. I was worried about putting miles on the car because it might negatively impact the resale value. I was very happy with the car but just happened to come across a 96 C4S that was option for option the EXACT car I was looking for. I advertised the '95 for months getting nothing but tire kickers for my perceived pristine, babied, over maintained car. I ended up trading the car to the same dealer I bought it from for the C4S as opposed to nickle and diming with the afore-mentioned prospective "buyers". What is the lesson I learned?? Why the hell didn't I drive that thing more and really enjoy it? It certainly wasn't the only 95 C4 in the world and neither is this C4S which I am going to drive whenever possible. I also didn't make any more money from the sale/trade in than I would have from putting an extra 10k miles on the car. Sorry for the rant but whatever you buy, drive it and enjoy it. Unless you plan on purchasing a 959 or 550 Spyder the values won't be going up. Sorry for the rant and feel free to flame on if necessary.

ZCAT3

It is hard to determine what mileage is worth - if both cars are equal in terms of options and cosmetics, the prcie differential between the 2 seems about right.

As an aside, a surprising number of people seem to think mileage on Porsches is bad. These cars were made to be driven and generally get better with mileage (if cared for). A 993 with 100,000 miles on it will likely outperform a 20,000 mile 993 "garage queen". These cars are not 1970s and 80s Fords, where 100,000 miles is considered good. These engines will easily live for 200,000, 300,000 miles or more. Porsche has been building incredibly durable 911 engines since the SC was introduced. I previously owned an 87 Carrera that I bought with around 87K on the odometer. The mechanic who did the PPI said the engine was just getting broken in. He was right - the car felt better 30,000 miles later than it did when I bought it.

88clbsport

Great comments Eric! I kind of speak out of both sides of my mouth in regards to mileage. My Club Sport only has 9k miles and it is kind of turning into a garage queen. My e30 M3 has been my driver and averaging about 750 miles/month. I am not too scared of the C4s with 63k miles because (knock on wood) it has all maintenance up to par. I am also getting a transferrable warranty that is good until Sept.
I have seen dealers with the low mileage C4s and even C2S's in the low to mid 60's. Again, this is what they are asking...I don't know if they are getting. The 97' Polar Silver listed on Rennlist in MA has sold. It was the highest mileage I have heard of and it was listed for 46,500. Not sure what the final price ended up being but, I would say the following in regards to pricing is safe: (all with records etc.)
60k miles or more-mid to low 40's
40k-55k miles-low 50's
less than 40k-high 50's
**now that I am buying one, I hope to see the depreciation level off. 993's were getting top dollar here in So Cal last year. I think 9/11,economy and 996's coming off lease in the 40-50k range have hurt 993 prices somewhat.

C4S

It sounds like you covered all your bases with the car you are going to buy, and the warranty does add some value and piece of mind. I agree with you that C4s priced in the mid 60's, aren't selling, unless someone is looking for that perfect example. I actually called, I believe it was Dave Maynard on that car in MA (I think the car was on consignment). I almost made the trip down to Boston to have a look, but then I found my car in my back door. If I remember correctly, the car was fairly clean although the front bumper was replaced or something. A doctor owned the car and he didn't want it anymore. I am not sure what the final price ended up being either, but I think your valuing criteria seems realistic. 993 pricing shouldn't lose too much more in value. These cars, the last of the air-cooled are still in demand. In fact I know many owners who are still trading in their 996s for 993s (a debate for another time/board). Prices are always dependent on the value of later model years, but if you look at the trends of P-car values, they reach a certain point and then hold- even when times are rough. Look at the values of 87-89 Carreras. These cars are 13+ years old and still getting 20-30K. The same should hold true for the 993s.

By the way checked out the website, the clubsport looks great.

88clbsport

I see 993's as a 35-45k car for some time to come...A little bit on the lower side for 95's and a little bit higher for 97/98's and c2s/c4s.
What else can you get for close to the money?

87-89 Carreras are easily a 25-30k car and I don't see good examples going much lower than that. As far as my Club Sport is concerned, I was approached with a deal to trade straight up for a C4S....i thought about it hard,but no way.
I will drive both the c4s and the Club Sport.
7-8k/year on the c4s and 2-3k on the Club Sport. I totally agree that Porsches were built to be driven, I am just hoping to keep the Club Sport completely original for my son to one day drive and ENJOY!

mpm '95 C4

Turned 95K on my C4 today. Bought it (2nd owner) 2 seasons ago with 82K for $34K. Other than normal SM (and a master and slave cylinder that I just put in to eleviate the brake warning light going on at start up and cold) this car has needed nothing. If maintained these cars run forever.

One nice thing about a high milage car is that it will have its fair share of road rash, pitted glass, stone chips, and other lovely signs of milage. So it makes it easier to want to put miles on it - instead of coats of Zymol.

Remember the body isn't the only thing that requires exercise...

CAA

Clubsport,

I totally agree with you on the 87-89 cars. Before my 95 C4 I had an '89 Silver Anniversary cab that I loved. Sold it for the same price I bought it for. To reference what someone above mentioned, I do think all 911's reach an age where the depreciation curve goes somewhat flat. Good luck in your search for a 993 and I think you will be very happy when you get one.

tom_993

[quote]Originally posted by mpm '95 C4:
<strong>One nice thing about a high milage car is that it will have its fair share of road rash, pitted glass, stone chips, and other lovely signs of milage. So it makes it easier to want to put miles on it - instead of coats of Zymol.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


Mpm makes an excellent point. Perhaps what you are planning to do with the car can help make the decision. Are you planning on driving it a lot and putting lots of miles on it? If so, get the car with the higher mileage. You won’t be as worried about another rock chip, and the seller took most of the depreciation already (there’s more depreciation from 30k to 40k than there is from 50k to 60k). If you want a garage queen, get the one with the lower mileage.