C4 on a dynometer -- Total Disaster!
11-06-2003, 03:32 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Mike,
Things are fine here. How are you? The Saab still runs great.
Yup, it's an annual thing, and it's a pain. It doesn't apply to pre-'74 cars, but I don't know whether later cars become exempt with each new year. Fortunately, a competent local sports car specialist (not exclusively Porsche) has the dyno thing, so I don't worry about something bad happening to my cars (though I still try to wait at the shop for them to do the test so I can watch).
Things are fine here. How are you? The Saab still runs great.
Yup, it's an annual thing, and it's a pain. It doesn't apply to pre-'74 cars, but I don't know whether later cars become exempt with each new year. Fortunately, a competent local sports car specialist (not exclusively Porsche) has the dyno thing, so I don't worry about something bad happening to my cars (though I still try to wait at the shop for them to do the test so I can watch).
11-06-2003, 03:41 PM
#17
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Todd,
Man what a PITB. You gotta move Upstate, man. Other than the lousy WX and crappy economic conditions, it's perfect !! Don't forget dinner at Rosalie's (Skaneateles) next time you're in striking range. Take care.
Man what a PITB. You gotta move Upstate, man. Other than the lousy WX and crappy economic conditions, it's perfect !! Don't forget dinner at Rosalie's (Skaneateles) next time you're in striking range. Take care.
11-06-2003, 03:51 PM
#18
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In IL , you can avoid the "dyno" and emissions tests altogether if you certify that it is used for club show purposes only, or is a race car. (you need photos or low-mileage insurance to prove it).
Since the race car has a test pipe and no cat, I got exempted this way.
When IL first went to the rollers, there were some huge problems and lots of damage.
I was nervous taking the garage queen in, but asked for the manager, and told him it was a collector car. I was allowed to stay with it the whole time. The techs were very careful. No problems. Be polite. Say thank you. They fall all over you.
BTW, Here an awd car is exempted from the rollers test.
Since the race car has a test pipe and no cat, I got exempted this way.
When IL first went to the rollers, there were some huge problems and lots of damage.
I was nervous taking the garage queen in, but asked for the manager, and told him it was a collector car. I was allowed to stay with it the whole time. The techs were very careful. No problems. Be polite. Say thank you. They fall all over you.
BTW, Here an awd car is exempted from the rollers test.
11-06-2003, 05:12 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Mike,
It's not fun, though it's not that bad now that I found a shop that is knowledgable and careful (and doesn't mind my presence).
The weather here is a bit better, but the economy is still pretty crappy... I'll definitely let you know when I'm headed north.
It's not fun, though it's not that bad now that I found a shop that is knowledgable and careful (and doesn't mind my presence).
The weather here is a bit better, but the economy is still pretty crappy... I'll definitely let you know when I'm headed north.
11-07-2003, 01:23 AM
#20
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Sorry to hear about your problem. That really stinks.
Put together a good 'laymans' description of why putting your awd car on this type of dyno would cause the damage. Maybe some pictures/drawings of what occurs when this mistake is made will help in court.
Sorry you missed your indian summer.
chuck
Put together a good 'laymans' description of why putting your awd car on this type of dyno would cause the damage. Maybe some pictures/drawings of what occurs when this mistake is made will help in court.
Sorry you missed your indian summer.
chuck
- sheesh - and mines a C2.
11-10-2003, 08:45 AM
#22
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I just got the bill from Formula Motorsports in Long Island City New York. Without tax -- $5293.00.
I have a lawsuit in my future!
I have a lawsuit in my future!
11-10-2003, 11:02 AM
#23
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OK, OK, question.... man this is embarassing. I bought my '95 C4 about 8 months ago. The smog shop I used put it on a dynometer. I watched the whole thing, without realizing that I could be damaging the car. Did I ruin the AWD? Is there a simple way to check?
11-10-2003, 11:42 AM
#24
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Richard,
As far as checking, there was a big thread on this a month or so ago. I think the short answer is "no". There's an entire shop procedure for testing it.
As far as checking, there was a big thread on this a month or so ago. I think the short answer is "no". There's an entire shop procedure for testing it.
11-10-2003, 01:12 PM
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OK, our roads stink here in the Keystone State but at least our inspection program is a lot easier than what you guys are talking about: The DOT has "farmed out" the responsibility of annual inspections to a certain number of auto shops so all we have to do is find a "Porsche-friendly" shop and you're in and out in 20 minutes with just a visual inspection and emmsiions test with the "tailpipe sniffer".
11-11-2003, 02:07 PM
#27
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The guy who screwed up and put the C4 on the dynometer was Hector at "Wheatley" on Central Avenue in Scarsdale, New York. The place goes by his name now, but it used to be owned by a couple of guys Buddy and Lonny who sold out to their head mechanic, Hector at least five years ago.
By the way, to MOTION lister, an experienced driver should be able to agressively drive the car into a turn and see if the rear end lifts the way it does on a C2 -- it should be very difficult to do if all-wheel-drive is working properly. Granted this is not a scientific method, but I read the thread last month and it is exceedingly complicated -- this test requires no tools at all!
By the way, to MOTION lister, an experienced driver should be able to agressively drive the car into a turn and see if the rear end lifts the way it does on a C2 -- it should be very difficult to do if all-wheel-drive is working properly. Granted this is not a scientific method, but I read the thread last month and it is exceedingly complicated -- this test requires no tools at all!
11-12-2003, 02:16 PM
#28
Drifting
Someone else will need to weigh in to be sure.
But my guess would be that the time on the dyno had nothing to do with the transaxle failure. If it was a 4 wheel dyno then certainly not, and if it was 2 wheel (as implied) then the front wheels would have spun initially as the VC tighten up, not something to be ignored, long before the transaxle sheared.
Plus, I really doubt if the VC can carry enough torque to break the transaxle and certainly not unless the front wheels were locked to prevent them from spinning.
Was a thorough PPI done?
But my guess would be that the time on the dyno had nothing to do with the transaxle failure. If it was a 4 wheel dyno then certainly not, and if it was 2 wheel (as implied) then the front wheels would have spun initially as the VC tighten up, not something to be ignored, long before the transaxle sheared.
Plus, I really doubt if the VC can carry enough torque to break the transaxle and certainly not unless the front wheels were locked to prevent them from spinning.
Was a thorough PPI done?
11-12-2003, 02:19 PM
#29
Drifting
Here in Washington state the emissions testing station only has 2 wheel drive dynos. They NEVER attempt to test any type of AWD or 4WD vehicles, not even those that have a 2 wheel drive mode.
The reason is that it is, potentially, far too hazardous.
Think about it, with one set of driven wheels on the dyno and the other on a flat surface and absent the vehicle being seriously restrained it would/could simply be driven off the dyno. And even were it quite seriously restrained the non-dyno wheels would still spin, assuming a high level of AWD coupling, as engine torque is applied.
Enough torque to shear the driveline would undoubtedly spin the non-dyno wheels first giving the test station operator an early warning that something was very, very, wrong.
PPI is a pre-purchase inspection. I asked because you implied you had just purchased the car and that and the above knowledge makes me suspect a pre-existing, to the dyno test, condition. But then I couldn't say that even a PPI would have caught the fact that the front wheels of an AWD Porsche weren't coupled to the driveline.
Oh, and one more thing. An AWD Porsche with PSM or Trac engaged would never allow the engine torque to rise to the point of damaging any portion of the driveline. As the rear wheels start to spin with the fronts on a high traction surface the system would see a disparity in rotation rates F/R and apply braking at the rear and if the condition persisted it would then dethrottle the engine.
The reason is that it is, potentially, far too hazardous.
Think about it, with one set of driven wheels on the dyno and the other on a flat surface and absent the vehicle being seriously restrained it would/could simply be driven off the dyno. And even were it quite seriously restrained the non-dyno wheels would still spin, assuming a high level of AWD coupling, as engine torque is applied.
Enough torque to shear the driveline would undoubtedly spin the non-dyno wheels first giving the test station operator an early warning that something was very, very, wrong.
PPI is a pre-purchase inspection. I asked because you implied you had just purchased the car and that and the above knowledge makes me suspect a pre-existing, to the dyno test, condition. But then I couldn't say that even a PPI would have caught the fact that the front wheels of an AWD Porsche weren't coupled to the driveline.
Oh, and one more thing. An AWD Porsche with PSM or Trac engaged would never allow the engine torque to rise to the point of damaging any portion of the driveline. As the rear wheels start to spin with the fronts on a high traction surface the system would see a disparity in rotation rates F/R and apply braking at the rear and if the condition persisted it would then dethrottle the engine.
