magistro

Is it necessary to remove mufflers on 95 993 to change lower spark plugs?
The reason I ask is supposably a local Porsche dealer performed the 30,000 mile service. But I recently replaced the mufflers and the clamps were rusted solid, and were not removed until I cut them off.

Flying Finn

I'm not sure if it is absolutely necessary but in reality, on the right side, you'll need to remove it.

Maybe Robin or Ray can advice if it can be done without removing the right side muffler but I doubt that it can.

Robin 993DX

With the right combination of the universal joints you can get to the spark plugs on the bottom right side without removing the muffler. Supposely you can also remove the upper right side bank spark plug with the same method. But personally I can get the right feel on the spark plug and don't feel comfortable to change the plugs that way. So I do it the hard way, remove the muffler, and the right side engine shroud.

Kevin Reilly

[quote]Originally posted by Silver Bullet:
<strong>Besides, mufflers only take a few minutes to remove and reinstall (once you get the hang of it...). </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup, I sure did my second one about twice as fast as the first!

Steve in the UK

Robin etc...

I am just about to take my car in for a 24000 service. Apart from the usual 12k stuff they are changing the 12 plugs, nothing else. The difference in labour costs between the two is 4 hours, yes 4 hours. Having read your stories of removing the mufflers to change the plugs, 4 hours seems excessive. I would like your views as I get the feeling that I am being ripped off.

Flying Finn

[quote]Originally posted by Steve in the UK:
<strong>Robin etc...

I am just about to take my car in for a 24000 service. Apart from the usual 12k stuff they are changing the 12 plugs, nothing else. The difference in labour costs between the two is 4 hours, yes 4 hours. Having read your stories of removing the mufflers to change the plugs, 4 hours seems excessive. I would like your views as I get the feeling that I am being ripped off.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you are (getting ripped off), I just installed Fabspeed Supercups and it took me about one our to do it. I didn't even jack the car up, just drove the rear wheels on a 'speedhump', which raised the rear enough to get under there. This was my first time removing (stock) and installing (supercup) mufflers so if I'd do it again, it would propably take about 15-30 minutes.

So Porsche mechanic should be ablo to remove one muffler (and put it back) in a matter of minutes, plus the changing of the spark plugs, but that can't take too much either.

I'm thinking that they are drinking coffee for about 2 - 3 hours after the job <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Paul M

[quote] I am just about to take my car in for a 24000 service. Apart from the usual 12k stuff they are changing the 12 plugs, nothing else. <hr></blockquote>

Steve,
Are you sure they are not changing the brake fluid and gearbox oil, also? I believe the brake fluid needs changing every two years, and the gearbox at five years or 60k. Service intervals are different in the US, and I'm not sure what mileage you're at on your car, but your 24k sounds equivalent to a US 30k.

A 30k service over here costs around $1,100 at the stealer. Is your service being done at an OPC or independent?

--Paul--

Steve in the UK

Paul

The extra 4 hours is just for changing the plugs. I emailed Robin and he felt that it was about right. I looked at Robin's site and the DIY for changung the plugs explains the reason. It looks like the job is a right royal PITA. I think you are right though, the 24k service should include gearbox oil change and brake fluid. I have done my own and so this has been specifically excluded from the job. I still intend to query the 4 hours though as I think they would do the gearbox oil and brake bleeding in that price. The garage is an Independent and they charge c$85 per hour incl. of tax. Therefore 7 hours say $600 plus oil at $140(that's right $14 per litre)and OPC service kit $130. Total $870 all in. If it were an OPC I guess the price would be about $250 more.

George Helser

After my 1997 993 had its 30k mile service I was under the car and noted the muffler on the right side had been removed. I took that as a sign all the spark plugs had been replaced.

Regards,
George
In sunny AZ

Robert Henriksen

The only way to REALLY be sure is to pull the passenger side, top plug that's towards the front of the car. That's the Super-Duper PITA to get to. If they changed that one, they changed them all!

Sometimes I feel like I'm working on a 1970 muscle car with a big block shoehorned into it - plug R&R procedure: first, remove engine...

Flying Finn

[quote]Originally posted by Steve in the UK:
<strong>Paul

The extra 4 hours is just for changing the plugs. I emailed Robin and he felt that it was about right...</strong><hr></blockquote>

So it IS that bad... I thought it wouldn't take that long. Well, I guess it's either my mechanics job or few more beers then! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

John W

Steve,

if you fancy it how about we have a go at doing the plugs ourselves ??
I'll make the time to do it, as we will both learn how to do it for the future.

Lets face it, 4 hours labour is a lot of beer money !
If Robin can confirm which tools he needed to do his, we can ensure we have all the right stuff available.

So, are you up for it ?
Let me know and we'll arrange when is best (this weekend is out).

Cheers,
John. (looking for any excuse not to have to dig the garden...)

Robin 993DX

John,

For sure you'll need the below combination. The rest is just standard tools, check the DIY for muffler removal.

Make sure you have an allen socket tool to remove the engine shroud allen bolts, they are on really tight. Use impact force to break them loose instead of constant torque force.

Have fun!

John W

Cheers Robin.

I have decent 3/8" & 1/2" drive socket sets, and some hex sockets too.
I think I'll invest in some better ones of these though, as they were only cheap, and I don't want them to snap, or chew Steve's set-screws up, assuming he takes up my offer .

I suppose I better start stock-piling swear words too, as we are sure to need a lot of them

Cheers,
John.

Robin 993DX

[quote]Originally posted by John W:
<strong>Cheers Robin.

I think I'll invest in some better ones of these though, as they were only cheap, and I don't want them to snap, or chew Steve's set-screws up, assuming he takes up my offer .
</strong><hr></blockquote>

My only recommendation would be the Snap-on tools.

As I have a drawer full of the Snap-on tools that keep me from using bad words.

<img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />