Plastic Engine Cooling Fan

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May 10, 2016 | 03:32 PM

#16

EMBPilot

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Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 2,382

Likes: 6

From: Jersey Shore

Quote:

Originally Posted by nine9six

I think I'll take a page from the aircraft/aerospace industry and have a fan milled from billet titanium alloy, and be done with it!

sure.

a single blade of a GE90 is roughly $100,000
but that's technically composite, and you guys said that wasnt strong enough anyways...

22d5311a-d3c5-427c-b71f-e9d5189bbdb5.jpg

Last edited by EMBPilot; May 10, 2016 at 05:13 PM.

May 10, 2016 | 07:14 PM

#17

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

RL Technical Advisor

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 11,870

Likes: 75

From: Portland Oregon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

is there really a problem here?

The fans hardly ever catastophically fail and tend to show easily seeable issues prior to doing so (cracks at the base of blades). 3hp to cool the motor? I'm fine with that.

you can do whatever you like, but this seems like an awfully big waste of time and money.

Stop by the shop sometime and I'll be happy to show you a bucketful of broken, cracked Mg fans. I see more of them every day as the "fleet" ages & accumulates miles.

May 10, 2016 | 07:23 PM

#18

71-3.0-911

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Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 2,981

Likes: 1,004

From: Colorado

Waiting impatiently for Steve's solution.

May 10, 2016 | 08:40 PM

#19

Ivan J

Racer

Joined: Oct 2015

Posts: 400

Likes: 28

From: Anaheim Hills, CA

Here is a pricey fan alternative:

http://www.5thxs.com/product/cnc-mac...he-fan-milled/

I hope that Steve comes up with something more cost effective....

May 10, 2016 | 08:49 PM

#20

AOW162435

Seared
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Joined: Jul 2005

Posts: 16,887

Likes: 494

From: Ellicott City, MD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan J

Here is a pricey fan alternative:
http://www.5thxs.com/product/cnc-mac...he-fan-milled/

That's tasty! And very impressive CNC work.

Andreas

May 10, 2016 | 09:06 PM

#21

nine9six

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Joined: Oct 2011

Posts: 5,464

Likes: 31

From: Oregon

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMBPilot

sure.

a single blade of a GE90 is roughly $100,000
but that's technically composite, and you guys said that wasnt strong enough anyways...

Quote:

Not composite due to long-term durability issues; this one will be the very last fan you'll ever use.

They are indeed composite, and "we guys" didnt make that statement, Steve Weiner did. But if Steve said a composite blade would not withstand the long term durability requirements of a 3.6L Porsche motor, then it must be so.
Not taking anything away from Steve and his extensive Porsche knowledge, but you know as well as I, there are many here to challenge you, if even you suggest such crazy talk!

That being said, I was thinking more along the lines of an environmental turbine fan; but gotta admire the comparison...

So without going so big as a single blade/vane of a GE90 (whatever variant you intended), at our level, you'd still be in the high 10's of K dollars, milling a one off, from Ti alloy billet..

Quote:

In 1995, the GE90 engine debuted aboard a British Airways 777 airplane along with commercial aviation’s first-ever carbon-fiber composite fan blades. Early GE90 engine models boasted outputs between 74,000 and 94,000 lbs. of thrust, and today it remains the world’s largest turbofan engine.

...and "they said it couldn't be done"

Last edited by nine9six; May 10, 2016 at 11:36 PM.

May 10, 2016 | 09:24 PM

#22

EMBPilot

Banned

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 2,382

Likes: 6

From: Jersey Shore

I hope Steve can make one like the GE90. complete with the titanium leading edge. I'll buy two and send one to AOW to make a clock out of, then live in my car.

May 10, 2016 | 09:32 PM

#23

nine9six

Banned

Joined: Oct 2011

Posts: 5,464

Likes: 31

From: Oregon

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMBPilot

I hope Steve can make one like the GE90. complete with the titanium leading edge. I'll buy two and send one to AOW to make a clock out of, then live in my car.

Nope. There are durability issues with composites...My God man, have you any idea the long term stresses of a 3.6; let alone a turbo!?

I hear the airlines change em out every flight.

No need to live in your car, just take out a 2nd. ☺

Last edited by nine9six; May 10, 2016 at 11:41 PM.

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May 10, 2016 | 09:37 PM

#24

KMASS993

Rennlist Member

Joined: Dec 2007

Posts: 1,334

Likes: 8

Not sure I understand why you wouldn't just buy a new one from Porsche... Really not that expensive.

May 10, 2016 | 09:56 PM

#25

AOW162435

Seared
Rennlist Member

Joined: Jul 2005

Posts: 16,887

Likes: 494

From: Ellicott City, MD

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMBPilot

I hope Steve can make one like the GE90. complete with the titanium leading edge. I'll buy two and send one to AOW to make a clock out of, then live in my car.

Gold.

Andreas

May 11, 2016 | 12:02 AM

#26

nine9six

Banned

Joined: Oct 2011

Posts: 5,464

Likes: 31

From: Oregon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan J

Here is a pricey fan alternative:

http://www.5thxs.com/product/cnc-mac...he-fan-milled/

I hope that Steve comes up with something more cost effective....

FROM THE LINK...

Quote:

Product Description

Do you have a cracked our broken cooling fan on your porsche 993 or 964? The original magnesium fan is prone to hairline cracks and failure. Our fans are fully machined out of billet on high end European 5 Axis cnc machined. Each fan goes through a thorough QC process on a coordinate measuring machine. Only $899.

How about that! Machined out of billet! Billet what? Pound cake?
I wonder if they are aware that a casting can be machined billet? Cast a hunk O' material and machine a part from it. Billet

What a load of mktg manure.

May 11, 2016 | 01:03 AM

#27

Jlaa

Rennlist Member

Joined: May 2012

Posts: 1,157

Likes: 274

From: California

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMBPilot

sure.

a single blade of a GE90 is roughly $100,000
but that's technically composite, and you guys said that wasnt strong enough anyways...

BAHAHAHAHA. But srsly, c'mon guys. We need to up the game. Why rely on dated technology circa 1995? This GE90-inspired engine fan stuff will only nullify all the throttle response savings you got from the lightweight flywheel. The systems are supposed to be a matched set. You can't just run an LTW flywheel and expect to run a heavy GE90-inspired fan.

I mean geez, you might as well pair a set of brand new Monroes with those M033s. Heck, why don't you start using Mobil1 0w-30 just for grins?

You gotta run a lightweight cooling fan GEnx style. It needs to have 18-blade fan with a composite case --- and maybe use Titanium Aluminide.

May 11, 2016 | 01:12 AM

#28

EMBPilot

Banned

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 2,382

Likes: 6

From: Jersey Shore

the only thing better than GEnx, would be a RED GEnx.
I bet steve is working on this as we speak.

May 11, 2016 | 02:26 AM

#29

bcameron59

Rennlist Member

Joined: Jun 2003

Posts: 1,642

Likes: 99

From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Quote:

Originally Posted by nine9six

How about that! Machined out of billet! Billet what? Pound cake?
I wonder if they are aware that a casting can be machined billet? Cast a hunk O' material and machine a part from it. Billet

What a load of mktg manure.

Maybe it's a chunk of wood!

billet
noun bil·let
Definition of billet

1
a : a chunky piece of wood (as for firewood)
b obsolete : cudgel

2
a : a bar of metal
b : a piece of semifinished iron or steel nearly square in section made by rolling an ingot or bloom
c : a section of nonferrous metal ingot hot-worked by forging, rolling, or extrusion
d : a nonferrous casting suitable for rolling or extrusion

May 11, 2016 | 10:02 AM

#30

Quadcammer

Race Director

Joined: Nov 2006

Posts: 15,860

Likes: 1,629

From: Clifton, NJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Stop by the shop sometime and I'll be happy to show you a bucketful of broken, cracked Mg fans. I see more of them every day as the "fleet" ages & accumulates miles.

And thats fine, but as a whole, all the magnesium fans on all the air cooled 964/993s produced don't seem to be producing rashes of failures. As a diligent owner I take a peek at my fan blades every time the lid is open. The cracking appears to be pretty obvious, but I'm sure occasionally you get one that breaks with no external signs.

I guess its a risk I'm willing to take.

Curious though, will you be making a turbo style fan?

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