Techron and oil changes
10-08-2003, 05:35 AM
#17
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Sorry, but I had to ask this obvious question.
If you should change your oil after each addition of Techron to the fuel, shouldn’t you change your oil after each fill up with Chevron gas?
I used to have my oil analyzed at each oil change. This was on my 911 as well as other cars. The laboratory analysis showed, it was a waste of time, money and natural resources to change oil every 3,000 miles on a regular vehicle or 5,000 miles on a 911.
Oils today are far superior to what was made years ago. There is no danger to change oil at the factory recommended intervals. I happen to do it on all my vehicles at 5,000 mile intervals because I can easily keep track just watching the odometer.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
If you should change your oil after each addition of Techron to the fuel, shouldn’t you change your oil after each fill up with Chevron gas?
I used to have my oil analyzed at each oil change. This was on my 911 as well as other cars. The laboratory analysis showed, it was a waste of time, money and natural resources to change oil every 3,000 miles on a regular vehicle or 5,000 miles on a 911.
Oils today are far superior to what was made years ago. There is no danger to change oil at the factory recommended intervals. I happen to do it on all my vehicles at 5,000 mile intervals because I can easily keep track just watching the odometer.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
10-08-2003, 08:34 AM
#18
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
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George:
Hi from an ex Arizonian. What city are you located?
According to the Chevron website FAQ on Techron, the quantity of Techron in its fuel is quite low and requires about 5000 miles of use to adequately remove deposits. Use of Techron concentrate will accomplish the same in one just tank of use.
"A bottle of Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner, when added to gasoline according to the label instructions, results in an additive concentration roughly 10 times stronger than the dose in our gasolines. This mega-dose of Techron provides a much quicker clean up of intake valve deposits left by lower quality gasolines."
In response to your question, IMO, there is no reason to change oil after use of Chevron fuel. The fuel gradually works to remove and maintain freedom from combustion deposits. Your oil is in no danger of being polluted or damaged from use of Chevron, whatsoever.
I use Chevron Supreme exclusively and monitor my oil at every fill up. I like the way my oil remains honey clear and free from any burned/acid smell for lengthy amounts of miles. I have no connection with the company but really like the performance of their product.
People on this thread indicate the belief that one should change the oil after a tank of Techron laced fuel. Perhaps people think that the Techron disloges all the carbon deposits and this enters and 'pollutes' the oil supply. This in turn necessitates a quick oil change.
I am somewhat nonplussed by and question this perspective. From my reading, it appears that as the deposits are removed by the action of the polyether amines, the deposits are consumed in the combustion process and exit with the hot exhaust gases. How these foul deposits are supposed to get past the multi ring seals and valve seals is beyond me. Sorry, I just don't buy the argument posited by other posters. They are burned and exhausted. If someone has an alternative explanation, I would be interested in hearing it.
I would also mention for whatever it is worth that my many years with BMW service (before seeing the Porsche light!) I witnessed an oil change being performed and then a can of Techron was added during the service event. This was BMW procedure.
Back in the 60's and 70's I was heavily into street racing and engine building. Most everyone used to make it a point to change oil every 3K miles. The popular saying was "the oil is the blood of the engine." When you changed the oil, you had the feeling that you had cleaned your motor and it felt good to do it! Additiionally, there was an expose' TV news article about a year ago that accused the oil industry of promoting the false belief that oil must be changed every 3000 miles. The industry implied that oil 'wore out' at 3K. It was shown through scientific analysis to be totally false. (As your own experience and analysis demonstrates.)
Mobil has shown that engines used under severe application (taxi industry) that were torn down for inspection after 150,000+ miles showed almost no wear when they used Mobil 1 with 7500 mile change intervals. This is powerful evidence. Also, you can read about the excellent cold temperature performance of synthetics in protection against wear in cold startups (where most wear actually occurs). Synthetics are quite remarkable. I do not know of any manufacturer that stipulates short 3K oil changes. Add to the fact that Porsche users are using synthetic oil and the 3K figure starts to look excessively premature. Also remember that our 993 engines have almost 300% more oil capacity than average larger V-8 engines.
So in view of the old idea of cleaning the engine of contaminents by way of frequent oil 3K changes as well as powerful industry media promotion, I would understand how this kind of 'clean' motor feeling could transcend the years and promote people to change oil too soon.
To each his/her own. If someone thinks it is best to change the oil every 2 or 3K miles, then do it. I too love still love that 'feel good' feeling after completing an oil change. Frequent changes certainly cannot hurt but could be a waste of time and and resources. However, if you take some time and do some investigation, it becomes clear that modern synthetic oils are fully capable of protecting engines with far longer oil change intervals. Don't get obsessed or worried if you cannot get your oil changed until 6-7K miles. It won't make a difference. The synthetic oil and factory approved filters are designed for that interval under normal service. Don't forget to also check your air cleaner and fuel filter.
Link to Chevron Techron FAQ thanks to Dan:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...ngas/faq.shtml
Hi from an ex Arizonian. What city are you located?
According to the Chevron website FAQ on Techron, the quantity of Techron in its fuel is quite low and requires about 5000 miles of use to adequately remove deposits. Use of Techron concentrate will accomplish the same in one just tank of use.
"A bottle of Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner, when added to gasoline according to the label instructions, results in an additive concentration roughly 10 times stronger than the dose in our gasolines. This mega-dose of Techron provides a much quicker clean up of intake valve deposits left by lower quality gasolines."
In response to your question, IMO, there is no reason to change oil after use of Chevron fuel. The fuel gradually works to remove and maintain freedom from combustion deposits. Your oil is in no danger of being polluted or damaged from use of Chevron, whatsoever.
I use Chevron Supreme exclusively and monitor my oil at every fill up. I like the way my oil remains honey clear and free from any burned/acid smell for lengthy amounts of miles. I have no connection with the company but really like the performance of their product.
People on this thread indicate the belief that one should change the oil after a tank of Techron laced fuel. Perhaps people think that the Techron disloges all the carbon deposits and this enters and 'pollutes' the oil supply. This in turn necessitates a quick oil change.
I am somewhat nonplussed by and question this perspective. From my reading, it appears that as the deposits are removed by the action of the polyether amines, the deposits are consumed in the combustion process and exit with the hot exhaust gases. How these foul deposits are supposed to get past the multi ring seals and valve seals is beyond me. Sorry, I just don't buy the argument posited by other posters. They are burned and exhausted. If someone has an alternative explanation, I would be interested in hearing it.
I would also mention for whatever it is worth that my many years with BMW service (before seeing the Porsche light!) I witnessed an oil change being performed and then a can of Techron was added during the service event. This was BMW procedure.
Back in the 60's and 70's I was heavily into street racing and engine building. Most everyone used to make it a point to change oil every 3K miles. The popular saying was "the oil is the blood of the engine." When you changed the oil, you had the feeling that you had cleaned your motor and it felt good to do it! Additiionally, there was an expose' TV news article about a year ago that accused the oil industry of promoting the false belief that oil must be changed every 3000 miles. The industry implied that oil 'wore out' at 3K. It was shown through scientific analysis to be totally false. (As your own experience and analysis demonstrates.)
Mobil has shown that engines used under severe application (taxi industry) that were torn down for inspection after 150,000+ miles showed almost no wear when they used Mobil 1 with 7500 mile change intervals. This is powerful evidence. Also, you can read about the excellent cold temperature performance of synthetics in protection against wear in cold startups (where most wear actually occurs). Synthetics are quite remarkable. I do not know of any manufacturer that stipulates short 3K oil changes. Add to the fact that Porsche users are using synthetic oil and the 3K figure starts to look excessively premature. Also remember that our 993 engines have almost 300% more oil capacity than average larger V-8 engines.
So in view of the old idea of cleaning the engine of contaminents by way of frequent oil 3K changes as well as powerful industry media promotion, I would understand how this kind of 'clean' motor feeling could transcend the years and promote people to change oil too soon.
To each his/her own. If someone thinks it is best to change the oil every 2 or 3K miles, then do it. I too love still love that 'feel good' feeling after completing an oil change. Frequent changes certainly cannot hurt but could be a waste of time and and resources. However, if you take some time and do some investigation, it becomes clear that modern synthetic oils are fully capable of protecting engines with far longer oil change intervals. Don't get obsessed or worried if you cannot get your oil changed until 6-7K miles. It won't make a difference. The synthetic oil and factory approved filters are designed for that interval under normal service. Don't forget to also check your air cleaner and fuel filter.
Link to Chevron Techron FAQ thanks to Dan:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...ngas/faq.shtml
10-08-2003, 05:09 PM
#19
I have owned 3 cars and 2 motorcycles over the years that I have taken to the track. In each case, I would occasionally see a small but noticeable decrease in oil level after a track day. According to my own observations as well as 3 different car and bike mechanics, the vehicles were not burning oil at the track. Rather, over time the oil was slowly picking up small quantities of volatiles as combustion by-products as well as from the gas. These volatiles burn off during track days, lowering the oil level and often mistakenly diagnosed as your engine burning oil.
This tells me a few things. One is that somehow, foreign volatile liquid gets into your oil over time. Two, you may think your oil level is fine, when in actuality it's been dropping but the volume has been made up by other substances. This is a non-issue for those of us that change our oil every 3K or 5K miles, but probably is an issue for those that use much longer intervals.
I'm not going to draw any conclusions from this that contradict anything in Skytop's well written post, except that perhaps burning off those substances is yet another excuse to put your foot into it every once in a while.
This tells me a few things. One is that somehow, foreign volatile liquid gets into your oil over time. Two, you may think your oil level is fine, when in actuality it's been dropping but the volume has been made up by other substances. This is a non-issue for those of us that change our oil every 3K or 5K miles, but probably is an issue for those that use much longer intervals.
I'm not going to draw any conclusions from this that contradict anything in Skytop's well written post, except that perhaps burning off those substances is yet another excuse to put your foot into it every once in a while.
10-09-2003, 04:17 AM
#20
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Pete,
I have always seen oil consumption increase with my Porsches (all air-cooled) on long high speed highway cruises. I don’t know why this is but I doubt this can solely be attributed to boiling off volatile liquids. On a 2500 mile trip I would be adding oil every 500-1000 miles.
However, the most frequent problem I saw in oil analysis was FUEL DILUTION of the oil. In the 80s, there was a lot of problems with fuel injectors clogging (causing leaking into the cylinders when the engine was off) and car manufacturers threatened the fuel suppliers they would list approved fuels in the Owner’s Manual if fuel companies did not include some additives to clean fuel injectors. In this case, changing oil every 3000 miles was insurance against oil prematurely contaminated by fuel or other sources.
On this topic, Exxon bought Mobil and since then I don’t see the “Drive Your Engine Clean” posters anymore. Exxon has a bad reputation for fouling engines but Mobil used to have a good reputation for keeping engines clean. I would be interested to know if Mobil stations are now pumping Exxon fuel. There are a lot of Mobil stations around here and I have been avoiding them lately.
Regards,
George
In sunny Scottsdale Arizona
I have always seen oil consumption increase with my Porsches (all air-cooled) on long high speed highway cruises. I don’t know why this is but I doubt this can solely be attributed to boiling off volatile liquids. On a 2500 mile trip I would be adding oil every 500-1000 miles.
However, the most frequent problem I saw in oil analysis was FUEL DILUTION of the oil. In the 80s, there was a lot of problems with fuel injectors clogging (causing leaking into the cylinders when the engine was off) and car manufacturers threatened the fuel suppliers they would list approved fuels in the Owner’s Manual if fuel companies did not include some additives to clean fuel injectors. In this case, changing oil every 3000 miles was insurance against oil prematurely contaminated by fuel or other sources.
On this topic, Exxon bought Mobil and since then I don’t see the “Drive Your Engine Clean” posters anymore. Exxon has a bad reputation for fouling engines but Mobil used to have a good reputation for keeping engines clean. I would be interested to know if Mobil stations are now pumping Exxon fuel. There are a lot of Mobil stations around here and I have been avoiding them lately.
Regards,
George
In sunny Scottsdale Arizona
