Todd P

I just ran my first auto cross, and now I'm hopelessly addicted! I had planned some upgrades to my 993, but I need to know how this will effect my class under SCCA rules. Right now I'm running A Stock novice. I know that if I put one of Steve's chips into the car, I move into the prepared class and I can put the PSS-9 suspension kit on, but if I want to stay in the stock class, can I do the Bilstein shocks with the rest of the RoW M30 set up? Is it worth staying in stock or just moving up to prepared?

Any other modifications/improvements (tires, brake pads etc)would be appreciated.

On the bright side, for my first auto-x, I may not have had the fastest time, but many folks told me I had the best looking car there (over 100 cars)

Thanks

rcwelch

Todd,
You need to get a copy of the current Solo II rules from the local region SCCA people. It will explain in depth what you can do to you car and remain in the stock catagory. Remember in the prepared catagory if you are in for an ounce you need to go for a pound...very competitive on a national level. Also I believe the new rule books will be coming out soon for next year. Good Luck!

cfdarch

Todd

I too am competing in SCCA Solo2 A Stock. My 993 is blessed w/ the Row M030 w/ Bilstein HD. I have read the rules and have told the local SCCA "elders" of my upgrade. As this setup is comprised of stock Porsche parts that were available that model year (although not in the US)and the shocks are allowable I remain classified as stock (at least locally). PSSS-9 would place you in street prepared and as rcwelch noted possible modifications are substantial. I am running Kumho Ecsta V700's which are DOT approved.As these tires are R compound I lost my novice designation.

Tom W

<a href="http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/" target="_blank">This link</a> will take you to an online version of the rules. They are pretty straight forward regarding what moves you into ASP from AS. If you're not sure, there is an email address for for questions to check your interpretation of you class.

SCCA classes are more "condensed" than PCA classes. If you do something to your car to get bumped into ASP (like a light weight flywheel), you get to compete against 993/996 turbos, 996 GT2's and modified Z06's. Not too competative for a NA 993.

JC in NY

This website has the Solo II classifications:
<a href="http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.shtml</a>

By the book it seems having the RoW M030 suspension would put you in ASP, since the RoW was obviously not standard equipment for cars sold in the USA and this suspension was not an option on USA cars. You could of course run the USA M030 and be legal in AS. My suggestion would be to just go to ASP and go hogwild with a better suspension including RS antiroll bars.

TrackJunke

Just wait till you get on a real track. I was addicted to AutoX until I did a DE. Now I am totally addicted to that. Maybe it is just me but I much prefer the race track than autox. It is worth every extra penny.

Todd P

All,

Thanks for your inputs. I was told by the old Porsche heads at the local Auto x's to stay in stock class as it's very competitive in the prepared class and you run with the big boys (TT's, Z-06s). My reading of the rules was that if the suspension was offered as a option in that MY, (RoW M30) and the shocks don't give you an advantage (Bilstein HD's?) then it's legal to stay in stock (much like what Cary was saying).

Thanks for the links to SCCA rules. I do want to get to the track and do some DE's maybe I'll find a new obsession albeit an expensive one. VIR is only about three hours away and the local PCA regions do alot of them out there.

Jim Michaels

Todd:

How competitive each class is varies from region to region, but an almost stock 964 has won ASP in Blue Ridge Region SCCA for the last 5 years. Stock 964s run in BS, so I'd think a slightly tweeked 993 should be competitive in ASP in most places (depends on the driver, of course). You got a favorable local ruling on the RoW suspension, but you can't even use wider wheels or a strut bar and remain in AS. Thus, I think I'd find staying in AS too restricting in terms of getting the car like I'd want it for street and track. Either way, I'll respect your decision; that's just something else to consider.

JC in NY

[quote]Originally posted by Jim Michaels:
<strong>You got a favorable local ruling on the RoW suspension.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think Jim hit the nail on the head. If you were to start winning major SCCA events and headed to national level competition the rules lawyers would come down on you like a ton of bricks. But if you're content with local action and nobody wants to protest then just have fun!

PS: The reason I think RoW M030 is not allowed is because it does not fit the definaition of standard equipment as "An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States."

Ray Calvo

[quote]Just wait till you get on a real track. I was addicted to AutoX until I did a DE. Now I am totally addicted to that. Maybe it is just me but I much prefer the race track than autox. It is worth every extra penny.<hr></blockquote>

I'll partially disagree with this, having done both for about 20 years. Track driving is all about smoothness; you start tossing a car around on a track and inevitably the car (and potentially you) will end up in their respective hospitals. As far as learning about car control and driving at the limit, I find autocrosses to be better. You HAVE to push the limit, get the car oversteering, and control it.

I credit my autocross experience with my having spun a 911 only once on the track - this was on a deluged Summit Point the first time I drove it. Car did a 180 spin that I swear took 30 seconds to complete. I've gotten a 911 sideways several times (incl. a flat tire while I was hard onto a corner) and have been able to recover. Folks that I've found have spun/lost control on the track can't read when a car is approaching its limit; autocrossing would have helped.

Keep up with the autocrosses! Good luck (and from what I know, installing equipment that is NOT available from a USA dealer is a A-Stock class bump).

cfdarch

After rereading I agree that the wording appears to say the Row M030 is technically a no go for Stock.

Is the ony difference between RoW M030 & US M030 the spring "height"? Sway bars are the same correct?

Can the RoW parts be ordered from the local P-Car dealer as opposed to Gert?

Anyone know why the diferrence in heights between US & RoW??

Jim:
From the 993 knowlegebase: option M459 strut tower brace. Since it was an option I presume you can run it. Any thoughts?

Fortunately for me the local guys are more about have good competitive fun.

Jim Michaels

My thought is that the strut brace would be legal for AS since it was an option on the 993. I just didn't realize that it was an option (It wasn't offered as an option on my 964). Likewise, wider wheels than "standard" would also be legal in stock if they were an option.

Todd P

I ran a front strut tower brace and had no problems staying in stock with my local SCCA tekkies.

I'm leaning towards making the improvements I want to the car and just learning to drive it even if I move into the prepared class.

Ray thanks for the words of wisdom. I eventually want to do DE's but right now Auto-X is more accessible to me.

Jim Michaels

Kim: Does that mean that you're not infected with male pattern sponaneous competition?

Todd: It's really up to the participant to correctly classify the car. The tech people will help, of course, but they can't catch everything, especially what's inclosed behind metal casings.
You did the right thing to tell them about your RoW, and probably got an appropriate ruling for that region.

BTW, someone asked how much lower the RoW setting was than the US M030. I've been waiting for a sure answer, but haven't seen it. As I recall, it was in the 10-15 mm range. I could easily be wrong, but that's what I *think* I remember.

cfdarch

Jim

From an earlier Viken post:
For the 993, there were four [4] different ride heights. Taking the US height as a reference, here's how they were:
1- M032 - USA/Canada ride height (this includes USA M030 Sport option)
2- M029 - Standard ROW ride height - 20 mm lower front/10 mm lower rear
3- M033 - Lowered ROW ride height - 30 mm lower all-around *
4- M030 - Sport ROW ride height - 30 mm lower all-around
5- M002 - Carrera RS ride height - 50 mm lower all-around

* M033 was standard on ROW Carrera S and 4S cars and M030 was an option which did not lower these two models. M033 was also an option on regular Carrera and Carrera 4 cars.

All above figures are approximate and vary from one vehicle to another.

Still wondering why Porsche was compelled to use different springs in the Row and US M030's. Fed's or fear of owner driveway ingress/egress?